Brink15 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 What he told me is that few minutes after the outside fireworks ' date=' he saw the fire starting ON THE RAMP OF LIGHTS right above the stage. He is pretty positive that the pyrotechnics had nothing to do with the fire simply because there was NO PYROTECHNICS USED INDOOR. the thing is that this guy is an airline pilot and knows well the dynamics of fire, but there he was amazed by the speed the fire extended. According to him the fire was well beyond normal speed of expansion."[/quote'] that would sustain the arson theory! a common thai way to solve business conflicts! completely neglecting loss of lives! anybody know more background information about the owner of the club and the owner of the building? I'm not sure Worldfun's source is correct. Many of the articles I've been reading quote survivors as talking about both pyrotechnics and sparklers being used inside the club. Times article I agree with the sentiment that even the most corrupt Thai would be insane to torch their business with hundreds of people inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brink15 Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Of course, TiT, so he could well be running a brand new venue this time next month, the remains of Santika bulldozed from both landscape and collective consciousness. All comes down to who he knows, and how quickly they can wrap up the 'investigation'. He'll be lucky that hiso Thais are less susceptible to supersticious fears of ghosts. I would think the odd BG would balk at heading for fun in a place built over the spot where several dozen people burned to death. My question is if a new club is built will the hiso Thais stay away over safety concerns? My guess is it would be business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Injured Britons in intensive care after blaze Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palatkik Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Conspiracy theories will abound despite the tragedy and huge loss of life, as Thailand has a history of insurance frauds and end of year fires. Sad but true. My own take would be just lax safety standards that will remain for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waerth Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Ok no conspiracy theories but: The source said Santika was illegally opened because it was registered as a night-time food shop, which required it to close at midnight. It could not register as an entertainment venue in 2003 after City Hall enforced zoning in Bangkok, the source said. The main reason for the high death toll was the lack of safety measures at the pub, which had only one exit door, said Pol Gen Jongrak, who added that police were also checking the building's structure to see if it was built in line with regulations. [color:red]There was only one fire extinguisher in the pub, he said[/color]. (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/135680/pub-inferno-leaves-61-dead) and: Deputy Police Commissioner-General Pol Gen Jongrak Juthanon said the Metropolitan Police was opposed to the operation of Santika Pub but the pub was allowed to operate by an injunction of the Administrative Court. Jongrak said. [color:red]He said the Metropolitan Police did not allow the pub to be open in 2004 on grounds that the place did not conform to standard[/color] but the injunction allowed the pub to operate pending a ruling in the case. (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/30092304/Santika-Pub-open-on-Administrative-Court's-injunction:-deputy-police-chief) So with these facts "known" already it isn't a surprise to me that the police is unable to find the owners of the place ........ I hope they will not go into face-saving mode again ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 61 dead now. << A source at the Metropolitan Police Bureau said the exit door was very narrow, and added there was a backdoor exit, but it was exclusively used by employees. The source said Santika was illegally opened because it was registered as a night-time food shop, which required it to close at midnight. It could not register as an entertainment venue in 2003 after City Hall enforced zoning in Bangkok, the source said. National police chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan briefed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva during his visit to the pub yesterday, and said there were problems with the building and exit doors. The fire spread quickly because of the materials used inside the pub, Pol Gen Patcharawat said. >> ... << It was Mr Thanawut's first visit. After learning that the pub would close after New Year, he and his friends decided to celebrate the New Year countdown there. He said each guest was given a firecracker to light inside during the countdown. He could smell smoke and saw flames on the ceiling soon after the countdown finished. >> Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waerth Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Same as I just posted Flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Ya beat me to the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steffi Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you haven't seen it already there's video showing the patrons inside waving sparklers in the air during the countdown. The only thing up for speculation is what happened next in so far as what other apparatus on the stage would create flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 My condolences to the dead and injured and their loved ones. Waerth - saw the same article you posted about the Administrative Court injunction. I share the views of many here, so I will try not to repeat what others have already said. - Arson? No way of knowing now, but I would certainly look into it. Why? Place about to close anyway. Owners cannot be found, but then they know they are in deep shit even if it wasn't intentiononl. If the reports about the use of pyrotechnic display are correct, it was at least grossly reckless. I have been in Santika, and the fire exits are inadequate. The use of pyrotechnics in that place is criminal(IMHO from a moral perspective). In just about any jurisdiction, you are looking at least homocide charges with this level of recklessness. - Patrons: It was a real mix (part of its charm), but the important point here is that some of the patrons were the children of wealthy and connected Thais. 800 people in the place, 250+ injured and over 60 dead - if true, the families of at least half the patrons were affected. The families of anyone who was there that night will be justifiably mad as hell. I don't see this getting brushed under the table. See next post. - The PM asked some good questions. Might seem like trivial, but often times when this sort of stuff happens in Thailand, the response is misdirection non-sense. That doesn't seem to have happened this time. - Thai Rath Reports Foreigners Caused Fire? Sounds like this was nonsense and is contrary to what I have read in the English language press, but then your average Thai doesn't read the English language press. And that probably explains why I heard the same story about foreigners starting the fire from my neighbours. It may be totally false, but some Thais believe it, and perception quickly becomes reality when emotions are this highly charged. Honest mistake in reporting or cynical attempt to deflect blame to outsiders? - Point already made, but NEP is an even worse fire trap. What happens when the leases are up on that place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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