Zantika fire????

[Gadfly]

I would say no arson. The owners would not torch the place before collecting the few million baht of that nights revenue.

 

Either fireworks or an electrical short started the fire. No emergency lighting at the exits, no sprinkler system, flammable foam ceiling, and no staff fire drills all contributed to the loss of life.

 

I would say investigate to see if this was arson (that is, intentional) anyway. 59 people died.

 

If the fire started because of "fireworks or an electrical short" - I have only read about fireworks and haven't seen anything in the press about an electrical short - and the fire was able to spread and kill 59 people and injure several hundred more because there was "no emergency lighting at the exits, no sprinkler system, flammable foam ceiling, and no staff fire drills", I would say the owner was grossly reckless. The tragedy could have been prevented, and 59 people died and several hundred were injured because of the owner's disregard for these basic safety measures. Surely that amounts, at the very least, to manslaughter?

 

The latest report in The Nation is that the owner postponed discussing the matter with the police until Monday

 

This is starting to smell really bad. Maybe we will see a real investigation with real accountability for those responsible, but I am getting the feeling that the authorities are hesitating because they are compromised, the owner is connected or both.

 

This will be a real test for the new government. When the new PM visited site he asked some pretty blunt questions. It obviously stunk to him as well. But can the new government follow through and hold those responsible for tragedy accountable??

 

We'll see in the weeks to come.

[shygye]

Andrew Long, a British man living in Bangkok, told the BBC that survivors leaving the club said fire broke out on the stage after fireworks were lit.

 

Another witness, Tos Maddy, said he heard what he thought was an electrical explosion.

 

Link

 

 

[bust]

I often have to provide certification for building codes here. If I don't and people die I go to jail....simple.

 

Maybe the first thing Thais need is a building code they adhere to. I am sure they have one but it doesn't seem to be inforced.

[limbo]

Bottom line seems to be, if you're connected, nothing will stick to you or just a tiny bit, like minors on the premises, which caused the many deaths (?), go figure. The real question at hand, safety, will not be touched upon and soon everything will be back to normal and some lower ranking person affiliated with Santika will take the fall.

[liquidflux]

It'd be interesting to hear from someone who's built and maintained a business inside Thailand, or more specifically Bangkok, as to what exactly the building codes are. Do they even have building inspectors?

 

Most of us in the west take for granted the use of sprinkler systems, fire extinguishers, proper escape routes, etc, but are they required in Thailand? It would seem logical that they were, but who knows.

[USVirgin]

It makes me re-think the places I stay in Bangkok, most of them quite decent, but there's a high rise for two where I might want to take another look at the emergency exits. When sober - prolly not gonna happen.

 

But if I were shopping for a condo buy or even a long term apartment lease, it would be a consideration.

 

This subject has come up a few times: last time about the Nana Hotel (I think).

 

As far as bars go, I don't think I'd want to be in Tiger Disco in Phuket when all hell breaks loose, to name another example.

[Gadfly]

I had the kitchen in my condo completely re-done. Does that count?

 

Probably not, but I did post some information on what happend. And from that, I can think you can make some informed assumptions about the practices of local construction workers based on information posted before any of this happened. Not directly on point, but gives you a sense of some of the practices here.

 

I read somewhere that new zoning rules went into effect and there was a mad rush to start projects before those rules went into effect, but don't know any of the details.

 

I am curious as well to hear from a real contractor or architect here. Given the local standards and practices, you would think there would be a strong demand for competent personnel. My problem was only resolved through the intervention of the foreign manager (of course, that was a kitchen, not a building), but even then, I had problems (delay) was he was not involved, and had to get him back on the site to get the job done. Without the German guy, my kitchen still wouldn't be done.

 

But that was just a kitchen. Anybody out there with real experience on construction of buildings, condos, etc. There must be.

[waerth]

So, will this tragedy change things? Does Thailand have the infrastructure to enforce building regs? Eventually will all this be looked at by the Thais with a shrug of the shoulder and 'mai pen rai' and things go back to the way it was/is?

 

Well to answer your question I discussed just this at Rama IX cafe with a couple of comedians. And there response got me quite pissed off. According to them this could never happen anywhere else because all Thais are very responsible people. According to them it was the carelesness of Farangs. So as long as farangs were excluded as much as possible from "Thai" venues it could not happen again. They were quite serious.

 

They also pointed out that according to them everyone knew Santika was a dangerous place and some said they had predicted an accident would happen. When I pointed out that the ceiling of Rama IX cafe has the same kind of foam covering as do many of the venues we play in they kept on insisting mai pen rai, will not happen.

 

There really is no hope for this country and its inhabitants I feel from time to time. It almost seems like Thailand is some kind of breeding experiment. Breed as many beautiful but brainless people as possible!

[liquidflux]

Isn't really surprising that some Thais are trying to shift the blame on foreigners. If the place was occupied by 100% Thais they'd probably say the material that caught fire was foreign technology, therefore, foreigners fault.

 

There will always be a segment of the Thai population that blames outsiders for all the countries woes. Not much different than any other place in that regard when you think about it.

[Faustian]

A segment! More like the majority.

 

I understand what you mean, but in the west we do have this odd concept of responsibility, curiously absent here. When I say absent, I mean really scarce, obviously exceptions do occur, but try arguing with a Thai. They wont see your point of view, only their own, even if the evidence is irrefutable.

 

Blaming foreigners for this fire sickens me to the core.

 

I *guess* the investigation will be thorough, but will it make any difference to such ignorant prejudiced attitudes? It seems the common folk have already decided and judged.

 

Never mind that there are bag searches as you go in and pat downs. Obviously people were allowed to take in dangerous materials.

 

Lets forget about how fireworks shouldn't be allowed in such an enclosed environment.

 

What about all the highly flammable cheap sound proofing materials that ignited to easily?

 

Where were the sprinklers? The fire alarms? The well lit emergency exits? The backup lighting system when the main lights went out? The easy to find fire extinguishers? Fire hoses?

 

And now we find out the club had been open only due to a court case and unresolved appeal and they were operating without insurance!

 

As for building regs. In my block, there are no sprinklers, one extinguisher per floor, no hose, no obvious fire exists except the stairwell. Certainly no external means of escape. If there's a fire here I hope it doesn't start on the ground floor by the only exit, which is the front door. Everyone would die. There's no smoke alarms and no obvious fire alarm, although I know there is one, but I've never seen it (it went off once). There is backup lighting.

 

If the Santika fire was caused by dodgy electrics, then is that a foreigners fault too? What about the alleged stage pyrotechnics?