Seh Daeng 'to lead the battle'

[Central Scrutinizer]

KS,

 

"Cent, I think you are being too harsh."

 

Harsh? I think more I am being realistic.

 

"Sure, there is a selfish element to us farangs wanting things to calm down,"

 

And it is understandable, but still selfish.

 

"but I think much more it is that we really do not like to see this country - and its people - that we love to get so fucked up."

 

Same here, but like I said, there is little you and I can do to change what is happening. It IS up to the Thais. Not much we can do but sit back and wait and see, and make plans to the safety of our families and ourselves should things go totally whacky here, whatever those plans may be. Some could easily move to their 'village' home for the duration where things might be safer among family and village friends who would help protect us as they know us. Others would maybe have to step out for a few weeks over a border. Others may go back home. I wish the best for Thailand, and so far I have had little to worry me here in Surin, though my daughter is now in Khon Kaen in summer school, a large Red Shirt area that could always have problems. SO that's a bit of a worry. To date most of the problems have been in Bangkok, and, being the capitol, that is to be expected in these types of confrontations.

 

"Some of us have been here for a long time (12+ years for me) and are fully settled."

 

Same here for me. I am in the same boat, just further away from the problems.

 

"Sure, the government will never fully accept us,"

 

Fully accept us? How about barely accept us. Minutely so.

 

"but that doesn't change anything to the fact that our lives are HERE."

 

It does though make life harder, and gives us no real input into the country and government that affects our lives daily. True or not?

 

"And as such, we SHOULD care about what is happening."

 

And we do care, many of us, as I do as well, but still what I said was: We do not count and have no influence. It is Thailand and the Thais run the show. We have no say. It sucks, but that is what it is. We have to tolerate it, as we tolerate many things we would NEVER fucking tolerate back in our home countries.

 

"While moving back is an option I suppose, it is hardly something to consider lightly."

 

Well, I never said it would/should be considered lightly. And yes, if you had to you could move away, for your safety and your family's safety. Most Thais could not. The point being you have that option.

 

"Just looking at my personal situation it would raise issues about:

- What to do with the kids (high school age with (virtually) no English)?

- What about my job? Should I just let my business partner and our investor hanging?

- Can I afford a move financially?

- How would my wife handle the move to a different country?

- Could I get a job easily back home?

- etc etc etc, I am sure you get the picture "

 

All good points, but still, if you had to you could. Could Somchai and his family down the soi?

 

Cent

 

[WorldFun]

boys boys in heat calm down

 

our children are as safe anywhere as here as long as we stay at home and/or far away from the ring of fire.

 

daily life (in LOS) such as motocy rides takes many many more young childs (boys) lifes than any civil war ever will/had in my view all about putting things in perspective

 

now as to 'influences' of Thais, expats, tourists, visitors or foreigners alike - well only 0.0xxxx1% of the Thais have any real influence anyway (the elite's, the top of the ranks military/police/government/protesters) so why even wasting our breath trying to pretend your average or not so average Joe have more or less influence here or in the west?

 

I fully understand the ideas behind the frustration/anger like the expat investor, NGO type business owner trying to make a difference as well as the common 'escape to safer heavens in the west' etc etc.

 

But some or quite a few don't have a home elsewhere, but made LOS their only/first/main home. And so what?

 

Ask your family (wife/gf/kids) if they want to move now due to safety fears & mark their answers?

 

Life goes on. Some might donate blood after 10/22apr respectively. Some might join the 'peace color' dem's a day or 2. Does it make a difference?

 

Can a farang do those things as well or is a voting card or Thai ID required to join in?

 

Have a nice day

[Wallenda]

Why isn't this guy dead or in gaol yet???

 

He was arrested' date=' along with a number of associates on weapons charges, just before the demonstrations started. They were let out on 1.6 million baht posted by his lawyer.

TH[/quote']

 

So it's within his terms of bail to declare war against his country and the army he's a member of?

 

[Hardy641]

Cent,

Over the years I read hundreds of comments from foreigners in the postbags of the Nation or Bangkok Posts as well as in forums like this basically always saying the same line:

 

“Don’t complain and try to change them. It is their country and not yours. If you are unhappy just pack your bags and leave.â€Â

 

Such attitude pisses me off and let me tell you why:

 

Irrespectively in which country I am living, working and doing business I have an influence on society. I pay my taxes, spend my money contributing to its GDP and even might provide jobs for locals and fellow expats. I contribute as much as the locals are doing. Still just because I am a foreigner and don’t have the right passport I have only limited rights. This is particularly true for Thailand but more or less happen any other country too. Shouldn’t I have the right to express my frustration about this and asking for changes? I think I and every other expat absolutely should have this right.

 

WTF do I care about voting in my home country which I have left for good over 12 years ago? Do I care about their new politics, laws regulations taxes, … I read about it to be up to date but to be honest hardly give a shit.

 

Do I care about these things in the country I chose to live and built my existence, which by chance is to be Thailand, but could actually be any other country except for my home country? Yes I care a lot because they affect my daily life and future.

 

I am not a nationalist and strongly believe that national states are becoming more and more irrelevant in the future. People should have the right to vote, same rights as the locals and actively participate in society in the country they live and pay taxes not the country they have been born. Protectionism should be a thing of the past as people should have learned that it never worked in the long run.

 

Anyway, if I misunderstood your stand on this you have my apologies. With morons I title these foreigners who believe it is absolutely OK that foreigners that foreigners have limited rights in Thailand and attack fellow foreigners who think this not right with stupid platitudes as I quoted at the beginning of this post.

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

Khun Cent...I don't disagree with what you are saying about having zero input into the situation. But, unless your family already has passports and visas, it might be very problemmatic (even as close as you are to the Lao/Cambo border) to get your family across. Sure, probably not a problem for you personally. But if things really, really went "tits up", it would be ironic if thousands of Thai's tried to flee to Cambo, no?

 

My best Thai friend is about my age; his family is very well-known in both police and political circles. The following was snipped from an email he sent me a couple of days ago:

 

"I suppose you are not contenplating visiting TH this year for two reasons; your health and TH political turmoil. Speaking of the latter, there seems to be no end to this dispute, as the Red Shirts stand firm on their demand....dissolve the parliament. Right now the silent sector of pro-gov. is apparent and soon the silent group supporting the Red Shirt will certainly show force. In brief, TH is now divided into two sides...the pro- and the anti-gov. If the situation drags on any longer and the Abhisit Administration cannot cope with the situation, TH will undoubtedly be facing with a possible civil war. Presently people are very much under great tension as we don't know what will happen next amid rumors. Just to keep you posted."

 

HH

[Hardy641]

As a citizen? With voting rights? Do you own land in your name and not a company name? Can you run for office? Can you leave the country if civil war broke out? Do you think in any meaningful way you have more to say in how the Thais govern themselves than the Thais themselves do? Do you believe you have any real rights by living here and working here all those years?

 

You are right I don't have the rights. However, I believe every foreign resident contributing to society through paying taxes and spending his money should have such rights.

 

That's great, but what does it get you besides money? You've created jobs. That is a wonderful thing, but also profitable, no? What's your point? That having a company that uses Thai labor gives you some right to say how Thais should govern themselves or be able to protest against said government?

 

I don't have the right to tell them how to govern their country but I should have the right to express my voice and vote.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. So now you are forced to sit back and wait for the Thai government to handle the protesters. Much as I have said, you have no influence. You are at the mercy of the whims of not only the protesters but the Thai government who has chosen to handle the protests in the manner that they have. As I said in the earlier post, it is up to them really. SO, what I said is true is it not? You have no say, no control, as you are not Thai and cannot influence their policies and decision making. They do as they want, the way they want to do it.

 

Well I think the current situation is different. Believe my fellow Thai partners as well as all staff, business partners are as upset as I am about what is going on. Abhisit, Suthep and Anupong are a complete failure.

However they are as helpless and powerless in this situation as I am. Only once this nightmare is over they can at least vote for a change.

 

 

 

[drogon]

Pronunciamiento

 

-> this is what it is, whilesome might argue this is a seditio.

but pronunciamiento is more adequate for the military in this case.

Not mutiny as this is not a refusal to obey orders.

 

In this case, pronunciamiento would be the exact definition of this but as it is Thailand I am certain the military code of justice lists

sedition and treason as punishable...

(treason: For violation of his oath to the state)

 

Wonder if the death penalty exists in the Thai military code of justice...

 

Anyway, poor Thailand (but after all they put themselves in this situation)

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Cent, your post started with:

 

"What gets me/puzzles me is why so many expats, and to some extent tourists, are so passionate and agitated by this whole red shirt/yellow shirt/whatever color shirt political clash."

 

Now in your responses though all you counter with is that farangs have no say / no influence. NOT the same thing.

 

As our lives are directly influences by all of this crap it most definitely is something to be passionate about. Maybe you living in Surin and not really noticing anything about it cannot comprehend that as much as those of us living in BKK and having to deal with this on a daily basis.

 

Sanuk!

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

NG,

 

"Bullshit Cent,"

 

Such vile language from a god! 555. What's bullshit?

 

"Kids here have a FAR better upbringing living the way they do now than in Australia,"

 

Your kids? I find that hard to believe, but then I am not Australian, so I wouldn't know the differences.

 

"frankly I've had better security etc in Aust than here."

 

You are talking 'financial' security here?

 

"My family back in Australia agreed it was better to stay here now while memories are being formed that are priceless, like riding elephants every month, that in Australia are impossible. That's 100% why we stayed."

 

Well, riding elephants, or watching roos jump around, or bison gallop along the prairies, whale watching, etc. aside... memories would be formed, likely nice, priceless memories, no matter where your family is raised. These things are impossible in Australia? I highly doubt that. I know it is highly possible in the USA to form these pleasant childhood memories (I did, and we had no elephants to ride around on), as long as your parents are good parents and you have a loving, caring family it is easy to have these memories.

 

"Also I've made no secret when the kids are at close to high school age, then no matter what they do need a Aussie education."

 

And, if left to just the Thai educational system I doubt they would be ready for that change. Unless you (and I know you do) give extra schooling for your kids to be on a par with the western educational system, which is higher than the Thai system.

 

"No if YOU choose to do it your way - so what I don't care."

 

Well, if I knew what you were saying I might be able to reply. WTF are you talking about?

 

"But don't reflect your decisions with mine."

 

Which I did where? I said neither of us has brought our kids back to be educated in the west. That doesn't preclude us from doing so at a later date in the future does it?

 

"I've had a pretty good run influencing Thai's so far,"

 

So you say and have said before. I'm not seeing it here at the moment in what is happening in Thailand/Bangkok? :nahnah: Or are you influencing the red shirts to go protest in Bangkok? 555555 (Just joking dude.)

 

"but flip the question over, what hope would a single person in USA have?"

 

Could vote, could write to congressmen, could protest, could bitch and complain to many outlets which would give you a voice. The main thing is your votes. As a landowner/homeowner you have some influence in the states. As a taxpayer as well. As a citizen you have some small influence. Here we have none really.

 

"Very little unless they choose to undertake a profession that leads them to influence,"

 

Much more so than here though nervous one. We trade off some things we take for granted by coming to live here. It's part of the problem with living here. It's a trade off at times. Give something up, gain something that maybe matters more to you.

 

"So far I'm pretty happy with the work I've done that has tangibly changed the small area I am in. Education retention higher than normal, most kids staying on, those that can send kids to better schools etc. Local political meetings take place at our home and I get to input advice."

 

That's great. A small step that may one day help some Thais make better decisions. Not everyone has that opportunity though.

 

"Kids gone onto Uni that would never have done so (not talking about family here) second small business about to start that will bring net income coming into the village areas."

 

That is good for you and the village. What is your point though? This discussion is not about village politics, village education, etc. It's about your rights here as a farang and how much influence you can have on the government, the protesters, the way we collectively are treated by the government. Every little bit helps, yeah, but get back on track here.

 

"Some changes in farming practices."

 

Glad you helped them change to a better way.

 

"So yeah - I have had a significant influence and am happy with it. I'm respected by the community, asked for advice, play a roll with community leaders."

 

In the village. And before in Bangkok with much higher people in the government. Because of your work. So what sort of influence do you/did you have on Taksin, or Abhisit, or the red shirt leaders, or yellow shirt leaders? Can you vote here? Can you own land in your name without a Thai proxy, wife, or business company structure? Can you influence someone who actually matters in the larger scheme of things? (gods usually can, but I have my doubts )

 

So, you think collectively that farangs make a difference here politically? Fuck man, we can't even get to own fucking 2 rai in our names for our own family.

 

"I'm wondering - do YOU feel that alienated from Thai society?"

 

I have my circle of Thai family, friends and farangs. Alienated? Not really, but I do know what I have here is not to my advantage what-so-ever really, except my peace of mind here, and the much better weather, cheaper cost of living, and pretty cool people for the most part. I like the sanuk attitude here and lack of freezing cold and snow. I am a realist, not an idealist. Face up to it, we do not count here any more than a pimple on a gnat's ass in the big scheme of things. And we never will, as we are not Thai, and never will be considered to be one.

 

JMHO.

 

Cent

[Nervous God]

Fark Cent I answer you directly and you come up with more bullshit? I'm better of financially in Australia, but living in a city sucks for kids, living in a village is an adventure they'll never forget, as long as I allow them the adventure, kids can't even swing on swings in most places these days.

 

You take it personal, I answer personally and all I get is crap like

 

"That is good for you and the village. What is your point though? "

 

If you don't want Thailand to get better, go back to USA, my feeling is, and remember I've been a expat since I was a toddler, is that the world is my home, and everywhere I go, I like to leave behind a better place, however I can do that.

 

If you don't like the fact I don't fit the mould, go argue with someone else, but don't try the crap with me because it won't wash.