Guest Posted May 9, 2002 Report Share Posted May 9, 2002 "What history? Do you have the numbers of thais having used a tourist visa to stay illegally? The fact is, you may know, Thais are very proud people and they do not like hardship and uncertainty. latinos, chinese, maybe. Not thais. So, i would not be so sure as you." I wrote it in another thread, and I'll write it again here: A Canadian acquaintance with a Thai wife was refused a visa for her by Canada. His parents contacted their MP, who said he would look into it. He contacted Canadian Immigration. He got back with my friend's parents and said there was nothing he could do. Canadian Immigration told him that Thais and Filipinos are THE worst visa jumpers in Canada. His wife never got a visa as long as I knew him. This is what he told me. The U.S. government, as is my understanding, says, "Ditto." I am sure they, like the Canadians, have the figures, and I am sure that db will kindly dig them up for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2002 Report Share Posted May 9, 2002 Post deleted by DoxyBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 "My anecdotal contribution would be that when I lived in San Francisco, between 1997 and 1999 I befriended five Thai restaurant and grocery store workers who were tourist visa overstays and three Thai restaurant owners and workers who were out of status on their student visas. I never met one who was legal." You never met one who was legal because they couldn't get extensions on their visas. Unlike the many expats in thailand who only have to do a visa run to keep current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 "This has been discussed many times. The issue is, as you pointed out money. A Singaporean going to the US is most likely going to go back to Singapore, historically, a Thai is going to try and stay and work illegally. I don't like the difficulty in getting visa anymore then you do, but there is a reason for the discrimination and I cannot argue that it is incorrect" I seriously doubt yor rationale. I will concede that you have a certain segment of people who will attempt to stay as with any other ethnic group. Poor people always go where there are better opportunities. Look at the huge influx of former Eastern Bloc people that have migrated to the US in the past 20yrs. I haven't seen our INS discriminating and trying to prevent them from coming in. They are no different than Thais in my opinion as a matter of fact I would say some of them are worse off givien the economic prospects in their homelands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 Post deleted by DoxyBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 "JJ, you've got your wires crossed. You're confusing eligiblity to participate under the VWP [Visa Waiver rogram] which gives non-immigrant visas, with immigrant visas which happen under a completely separate process. If you're looking for someone to blame on behalf of the Thais or any other nationality not granted the -privilege- of participation in VWP, you may look to their countrymen who have already tried to get over on Uncle Sam. " Sorry, u misunderstood. I am not talking about VWP or eligiility processes etc. I don't even know how you inferred that. I am talking about pure and simple discrimination by our government. Let me give you some examples. Cubans who enter the country illegally can be granted politcal refugee status and eventually citizenship, whereas Hatians who were tormented for decades by their government are automatically turned away or detained. Russian Jews were granted religious refugee status by the boatloads for decades yet Christian Sudanese are not. My point is that the process is uneven and is purely political across the board without an ounce of objectivity. Now as far as the Thais are concerned it seems that the prevailing logic and your anecdotal evidence suggests that if citizens are from a a poor country they will overstay their visas. That is complete hogwash. Thailand doesn't even make it into the top 20 illegal immigrant population(I have provided the top 10 below). Hell, Thais can't even get in the damn country to be statistically significant. As far as getting over on Uncle Sam,how do you explain Canada which is a rich industrialized country that has a reciprocal visa program with the US as the fourth largest illegal immigrant group in the US? Let me re-state my original point so that you don't that my "wires are crossed" again. You have mainly Westerners complaining about the unfairness and corruption directed towards them by Thais. I say quit your crying because at least the damn Thais allow you to visit and stay in their country whereas they can't do the same in yours. Fair is fair. http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/illegalalien/illegal.pdf http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/299.htm Illegal Alien Population, Illegal Immigration: Ten Aliens Apprehended, Oct. 1996: Fastest Growing Countries FY 1996: Top Ten Countries of Birth AverageAnnualGrowth, Top 10 Nationality 1992-96 All countries 5,000,000 All countries 275,000 All countries 1,649,986 Mexico 2,700,000 Mexico 154,000 Mexico 1,598,016 El Salvador 335,000 Guatemala 12,000 El Salvador 7,714 Guatemala 165,000 El Salvador 11,000 Honduras 7,712 Canada 120,000 Canada 8,000 Guatemala 6,659 Haiti 105,000 Honduras 8,000 Dominican Republic 5,066 Philippines 95,000 Bahamas, The 7,000 Canada 3,160 Honduras 90,000 Haiti 6,000 Colombia 1,791 Bahamas, The 70,000 Colombia 4,000 Jamaica 1,692 Nicaragua 70,000 Dominican Republic 4,000 Nicaragua 1,268 Poland 70,000 Trinidad & Tobago 4,000 Ecuador 1,247 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 Post deleted by DoxyBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 "Back to the point, please, of visa overstays. You can't overstay if you don't have a visa. Your list is 6 years out of date and everyone on all three lists [save the Filipinos and Poles] came over a land border or on a short boat ride. In other words, snuck in more likely than overstayed." Data is the most current provided by the INS that is why i provided you with the links. the other groups in the Top 20 were #15Pakistan, #16India, #17Irealand, #18Korea, #20Portugal. That refutes your border crossing short boat ride theory. Illegal Alien Resident Population (Estimates of the Undocumented Immigrant Population Residing in the United States: October 1996)(Updated December 2001) "Canadians, who the hell can figure them out? But not all overstayers would have the same incentives" Are you saying there motives are completely differeant than any other group overstaying in the US? I don't know much about Canadians either. "And that's what you're missing. You've giving totals, the point is instead RATE of overstays. If this is not the point... " unless you can provide me with that data then neither one of us can effectively argue this point now can we? I just get tired of hearing the unfounded bull that supports the perception that Thais can't possibly be allowed to come to the US because they are from a poor country historically will overstay their visas and will work here illegally taking jobs from Americans or getting welfare -that is why we have our biased immigration policy in place. Hogwash! "Why even try to put visa denials in the same thread with overcharging visitors? Am I supposed to be financially martyred as compensation for my government's very smart visa policies which happen to grate with a few people? " Why not put it in the same thread? Financially martyred? Spare me the drama please. Here is a new twist...work with me on this one, if you are a shareholder in a corporation that sells a product in Thailand I am sure they are overcharging the average Thai consumer for that product which translates into profits for you. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a Western cosmetic or hygeine product manufactured in Thailand-not imported- sell for the near the same price as in the States. "What you're really saying is that two wrongs make a right? Only people who've been refused a visa should be allowed to overcharge if you want to look at it that way." Do 2 wrongs make a right? I don't know. I am saying that, that is the way it is and quit your whining about Thais over charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 Swiss Air just promised me a "free" ticket. I only have to pay 2000 B. Airport tax, security charges, insurance surcharge, cover charge (maybe I got this one wrong?) - whatever, they couldn't really figure it out. Just pay up, OK? Like "free" shows on Patpong - but no Tourist Police will help me. As mentioned before, Westerners are more innovative than Thais when they are after other people's money. And it's harder to protect your money, because behind Swiss are some of the biggest banks of the world (UBS et al.). I'd really rather be ripped off by a BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted May 10, 2002 Report Share Posted May 10, 2002 The main reason, IMO, 3rd world countries denizens are not given a tourist visa too easily is the fact that it is feared that if anything happens to them, (injury, loss of return ticket and valuables) Uncle Sam will have to pay for their ordeal, as most embassies are well known not to be very forwardly in helping their own with cash. Which makes sense, and the reason why U.Sam will not let us bring a friend upon sending bond/guarantee is that he don't give a damn. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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