Understanding Their View of Your $$$ Money $$$

[Guest]

Post deleted by DoxyBlue

[Old Hippie]

I have to agree with Pattaya 127 here. I have no idea why you can't sponser a visitor. If they over stay, you pay, that simple. The bond idea is great, yet ignored. It could be a great source of revenue for the government as well. You post a bond, your friend visits, they make the interest on the money, your friend leaves, you get back the principle, great for all. Instead we have a totally screwed system here.

 

A side note, odd how this thread has gone all over the place. Truthfully, I have forgotten the main point of topic here...I hope everyone can put aside their personal arguements and we will all part friends.

[Guest]

"I supposed to be financially martyred as compensation for my government's very smart visa policies which happen to grate with a few people? "

 

 

 

I like this one...as little at that one:

 

 

 

"These criminals do work "

 

 

 

I guess we should hang them for beeing poor enough to do illegally jobs that most westerners wouldn't bother for.Aiming where you may have a better life seem most natural to me.That guys lucky enough to hold a right passport feels the legitimity to call those migrants criminals disturbs me.

[Old Hippie]

I'll tell you an interesting story. Years back, in college, a guy was bitching to me that he needed a job, but all the foreigners had the jobs. I told I could get him a job for $7.00 an hour, then a good wage. He asked what. I told him my friend had a cleaning business, and he needed extra guys, as business was good. The guy bitched that it was "Black man's work" (not his exact words) and he wouldn't take orders from a Filipino. So I asked him if it was then o.k. to offer the job to a foreigner? again he scoffed. I asked who was supposed to do the job if no "real" American wanted it? Oddly, he didn't have an answer. If it weren't for immigrant labor (a lot of it perhapes illeagle) then who would pick the food, clean the offices, mow the lawns, and build the houses?

 

As for the previously posted stats on who is here illeagally, that all depends. I know certain groups come under tighter scrutiny than others. For example, Aafricans and Filipinos tend to have their marrages questioned more thourghally than say Irish or other Europeans. Yet statistically, I wonder if they are really more prone to fraud, or if the USINS is just playing the old race game?

[JJsushi]

"es, we can. Using your top 20 list, count the countries that don't have a robust, stable modern economy. Uh, 17? 18? Economic incentive is the overwhelming cause of illegal entries AND overstays. These criminals do work and do displace legal workers. If they don't work, how do they live? And if they were independently wealthy they'd go the legal route for getting residency as investors or treaty traders. Your argument shoots itself down. "

 

 

 

Okay my friend let's assume all illegal residents are poor as dirt as u pretty much infer in previous statements. These criminals as you so like to characterize them do not take jobs away from legal workers. They do all of the crappy jobs that the majority of legal residents and citizens don't want to even contemplate. I don't think that they are displacing software,banking, or engineering jobs.

 

Where the heck do you think that the California economy would be without the illegal Mexican worker. These people help to subsidize the lifestyles of those who are considered to be financially okay. Let' see cooks, nannies,cleaners, valet, bus boys, day laborers, maids, gardners, agricultural labor, etc, etc, the list goes on and on. These criminals usually work for less than the legal minimum wage, live in substandard conditions and get no benefits. Oh yeah I forgot to add that may of them also pay taxes. I country would be up a creek if we didn't have a readily available supply of illegal cheap labor.

 

 

 

You still haven't explained the illegal Canadians, Indians, Irish, Koreans, Portuguese.

 

 

 

"And these products all have development costs which are paid for at the rates such work costs where it's done -- in the West.

 

 

 

You can't seriously suggest that it's better for consumers in affluent countries to subsidise costs for the benefit of consumers elsewhere. And you're talking about luxury goods anyway -- no one is forcing Thais to buy them -- and no one is stopping the Thais from developing and selling similar goods. "

 

 

 

Hogwash. The corporations are global and have R&D all over the world along with factories and labor pools. They sure as hell don't pay employees the same all over the world yet they will charge pretty much the same for the goods.

 

We can change the product to pharmaceuticals, fertilizer,chocolate, clothing, etc.

 

 

 

"For the record, I'm not "whining" about that. I couldn't give a fuck about Thai tourist attractions."

 

 

 

point taken

[JJsushi]

"A side note, odd how this thread has gone all over the place. Truthfully, I have forgotten the main point of topic here...I hope everyone can put aside their personal arguements and we will all part friends."

 

 

 

A good debate should never have any animosity or hard feelings. I respect everyone's view and as far as I have nticed in this thread no one has personally attacked or questioned the credibility of another poster.

 

 

 

BTW- I also have forgotten the orignal topic. Our curent one is a little more stimulating. The true beauty of a thread is how it can mutate, the hard part is to get the mutation back to its orignal form!

 

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by DoxyBlue

[Grabii]

Hippie,

 

 

 

"I have no idea why you can't sponser a visitor. If they over stay, you pay, that simple. The bond idea is great, yet ignored. It could be a great source of revenue for the government as well."

 

 

 

I disagree, it's not that simple. The whole intent of a visitor's visa is that the person is to visit, and then go home. The government doesn't want the bond money when the visitor stays on, they want the visitor to go home. Posting bond money doesn't incent the visitor to go home if it's not their money that's lost when they 'jump bail'.

 

 

 

"You post a bond, your friend visits, they make the interest on the money, your friend leaves, you get back the principle, great for all."

 

 

 

For countries where your scenario has proven to be accurate, no bond is necessary. In fact for many of those countries, no visa is necessary. Thing is, there are many countries for which your scenario is not the real scenario. The real scenario goes more like this:

 

You post a bond,

 

your friend visits,

 

your friend disappears,

 

you lose the principal,

 

the USA has 1 more illegal alien.

 

 

 

Note that I'm not debating here whether legal or illegal immigrants are good or bad for the country. I'm accepting the fact that an immigration quota has been set, that's the system within which we are working at the moment. Given that system, demand is greater than supply and people try to get around it. The same sucker farang who loses his money by sending a poorly chosen female friend in Thailand a monthly allowance will similarly lose his money if the government allows him to post a bond for that poorly chosen female friend in Thailand to 'visit' the USA for a 'holiday'.

 

 

 

Regards, JEff

[iuytrede]

db has become a socialist!

 

 

 

"but no fundamental harm would be done."

 

 

 

Mr O'Neill and Mr Greenspan would probably beg to differ.

 

The society you are so correctly describing would certainly be fundamentally different fom the US today. Sweden and East Germany had economies where "the [labor] market" was not "artificially depressed because of the readily availibility [sic] of illegal labor". So a garbageman (not a very desirable career) might earn more than a doctor (very prestigious profession). And as you say all the unemployed would have a job (Wallstreet's nightmare).

 

I don't think you would recognize such a society.

 

 

 

But fortunately America's Constitution guarantees freedom of choice: the freedom to choose between 136 kinds of breakfast cereals and between 27 brands of vanilla fudge icecream. The "Right to eggplant" is an integral part of the American Way of Life, of civilization as we know it.

 

 

 

db has become un-American!

 

 

 

 

 

BTW the shopping police is not going to kick in your door. They might (for a fee) kick in the door of the local competitor. Multinationals are not always fair competitors, but they are always more powerful competitors.

[pattaya127]

 

 

If you're taking a humanitarian approach, the kindest thing you can do for illegals is to deport them. Apparently their lives in the US are wholly without dignity.

 

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I disagree. here in SF, there are a lot of latinos, some illegal, some illegal now legal. The condition in their countries are a lot more undignifying. especially with no job and rampant corruption. These guys are pretty resourceful, now 1 or 2 generations on, their kids are bona fide americans, schooled and all. i know quite a few, as they indeed will work better than white americans when it comes to salaried handywork. i have had a few unskilled white guys working in construction for me. Not great work ethic on their side. whatever the money. At 10/20$ an hour, latinos are a good crew, their work ethic is fine, and i see no undignity in their condition. Not more than 3 Bgs living in the same room in Pattaya,and eating from street stalls, as the daily conditions are pretty comparable. I see much righteousness in your point, and am surprised at this "them vs us" stance since you live abroad in a 3rd world country. Correct me on this last assumption if i am wrong. Cordially and still IMO