Diary of an ex-bg

[soongmak]

Pattaya127,

 

 

 

ROFL!

 

 

 

What you say is true of course. The main point for me however was that if you don't stick to the facts in a discussion but rather choose to distort them to fit your personal ideas, any discussion becomes meaningless.

 

 

 

Cheers!

[think_too_mut]

>I do not believe anyone is "bragging" about accomplishments. Some on this board know how hasardeous this can be and guarantee for success does simpy not exists. Rather guarantee for failure. And failure is hard to accept.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reiterating it - if you know the recipe, you can bake your cake whenever you want.

 

 

 

My girl wants to learn the recipe. As simple as that. That is where all that school and busy schedlue are coming from.

 

 

 

Not only among bgs but within general population, just a small percentage of people goes that hard. Not even within the rich.

 

 

 

Just think of how many people would love to get their cake without knowing the recipe? They present themselves everyday - at 7-11 and other places where lottery tickets are being sold, for example.

 

 

[Guest]

GTG, I think you are not entirely aware what motives TG's to become BG's in the foreign scene. If your are working on some thesis (as soneone suggested), than perhaps you should do some more investigation.

 

BG's in the farang scene are quite different from those in the Thai scene (and much less in number).

 

At first their motivation is rarely money, but rather having been dumped by their Thai BF of husband. Left with little education and a few kids to take care finding decent work that pays for even the basics becaomes alomst impossible.

 

 

 

It is an unfortunate ill of Thai Society. Perhaps you, as a GTG can start a movement to improve the likelyhood of these upcountry girl to be better educated and better accepted by the rest of the Thai Society. Don't look down upon a girl because she made some mistakes in the past (like getting married and kids at a much to early stage in life(, but try to look forward in how she could return to a better life and acceptance.

 

 

 

By the way, what is your own background. Which region are you from? do you work or still study? Do you have a boyfriend, husband and or children of your own?

 

No need to indentify yourself, but some general background would be nice.

 

 

 

I mentioned my own background in another post, but in case you did not read that here it is once more

 

I'm a long term and permanent resident. My wife is not a (ex-BG) but a successful businenesswoman. Part of Higher Society you may say. in fact her views on BG's do not differ much from yours, and she avoids being seen with any of them (she recognizes them from far) even if they are the current GF's of wifes of some of my expat friends. I tell her she does not have to become close friends with them, but there is also no need to look down on them, if we don't know the circumstances that took her once to become a BG. Still I can't seem to chance her view on this. the problem is that if she finds herself in the company of farang with ex-BG GF's many Thai may regard her as one and it is that that she wants to avoid at all cost.

 

 

 

It is at times a problem because their are very few Foreigners in Thailand that have non-BG's as wife or long term GF's.

[pattaya127]

Your post reminds me of 2 or 3 thai women, educated, here in California, who would rather not refer to their thai origins, lest people think they were BGs. I do not know if that reflects on them, being so ashamed of their native country, or their inability to tell people about their culture and history, or simply be proud of being thai, whatever people think of thai women. I remember an acquaintance's Twife at dinner, and i was trying to talk about Thailand (and certainly not sex), and she evaded the conversation. i just gave up. i still don't know where she is from. My friend, her sister in law, confirmed to me she does not like to say she is thai. Shame!

[Guest]

In reply to:

---

LG said:

 

 

 

Not at all, I think it is good for us to be reminded of the attitudes that exist in certain parts of Thai society, of all the snotty-nosed shit that our friends and partners have to put up with from their 'betters'. A lot of the time it may be conveyed in verbal or non-verbal ways that are too subtle for most of us to pick up on. At least you say what you think.

---

 

 

 

Well said, LG.

 

 

 

I'm glad GTG had the opportunity to say things that she said. She verbalized a lot of attitudes that permeate the middle class of Thai society. The sad part is that these attitudes are partially responsible for the sorry state of affairs in Isaan - or at least for a lack of will to do anything about it.

 

 

 

HIGH THAIED alleged that GTG claims that poor Isaan girls can "reach an economically successful life." Actually, I don't recall she ever said that. All she said they can get a job that will allow them to survive at a subsistence level. I suppose that should good enough for them. Very dignified option indeed.

 

 

 

Someone pointed out that GTG cannot differentiate between social and individual levels, namely the fact that structural problems (eg. poverty in Isaan) cannot be solved by individual action (except in isolated individual instances). This however is not a personal shortcoming of GTG; this notion is missing from the Thai educational system, of which GTG is just a victim. What they teach them in school, starting with S.L.N ("Nangsue Rian Klum Sangsoem Laksananisai") in P.1, and all the way throughout Mathayom, is that society will be peaceful and happy if everybody is a morally good person with will to sacrifice. People are poor because of their own bad habits; good persons are good subjects and they live in happiness. The concept that individuals are social products, formed in part by the political and economic context, is unheard of.

 

 

 

GTG tells us nothing comes free for her. She WORKED HARD. She almost had to leave school. She knows hardship and what it takes to get through it.

 

 

 

Those few sentences speak volumes.

 

 

 

I got my Master's without any financial support from my parents or anyone else. Worked through school, as many three jobs at the time. Had to leave the school a couple of times. I didn't and don't consider it hardship. And I don't suppose many of my fellow sanukers' daddies buy them Mercedes and pay for their trips to Thailand. Isn't it ironic that though we may come from more affluent countries and may be richer (in dollar terms) than average Thais, we have far more recognition and appreciation for other people's hardship than a pampered "not that poor" middle class Thai.

 

 

 

Another issue is the one P127 alluded to--the sense of shame. GTG has been exposed to the world by studying overseas and from reading non-Thai sources. And she's clearly trying to come to terms with some things about her own country with which she's not comfortable. In another thread she said (or at least implied) that farang are the reason Thailand has more prostitutes than other Asian countries. Instead of looking at the true reasons behind the problem she finds it more convenient to place the blame on farang--and on prostitutes themselves.

 

 

 

And GTG may very well have a personal issue as well. After all, if it weren't for her father's escaping the poor Isaan village, she herself might be one of those whom she scorns.

[Guest]

Great post, Mad Max

 

 

 

I just want to quickly set the record straight here, as I ignored it initialy, thinking it wasn't worth the effort.

 

 

 

>>>HIGH THAIED alleged that GTG claims that poor Isaan girls can "reach an economically successful life." Actually, I don't recall she ever said that.<<<

 

 

 

This was born from a post by HER, as follows:

 

 

 

>>>He (TTM) stated that the girl has 'better' education than average bg. THAT means she could have a considerably better job if she wants rather than working as a bg with more money in the first place.<<<

 

 

 

"With more money in the first place", meant (to me) that GTG was saying educated job would pay more than working as bargirl. To this day, I still don't know how else to read that statement. Anyway, I called her on this, saying she was dreaming that a salesgirl (point of reference that was being used at the time) could make more than a bargirl. She said that I misread what she said, and so I just let it go at the time. I was going to say, "No, that's exactly what you said", but felt I had bigger fish to fry, at the time.

 

 

 

That, and statements from GTG in the vien of "She can be sales girl, she doesn't have to be a B/G", led me to say that GTG believes that a poor Isaan Thai girl can lead a life that is economicly successful if only she would do just that...become a salesgirl. If not, what's her point? Sorry all... to bore everyone with this, but just wanted to clarify.

 

 

 

>>>People are poor because of their own bad habits; good persons are good subjects and they live in happiness. The concept that individuals are social products, formed in part by the political and economic context, is unheard of.<<<

 

 

 

Is this, do you think, a major part of the mix? I've also heard that Thai's feel that their place in life is somewhat pre-ordained by their previous life. Read: If I was bad in a past life, then that's why I am at the bottom rung of the social ladder, so to speak. And maybe why there is a certain "acceptance" within the Thai culture to accept your status as you were born into it? Or is it more based on 'present' real-life habits, good or bad? Or neither?

 

 

 

HT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve]

Interestng topic and even more interesting and enlightening are the posts.

 

I know very little of the Thai class structure specifically but a little more on the Asian class structure as a whole.

 

After reading this post, I would like to ask the members if they know specifically of Thais who came from poor, lower class backgrounds and are now part of the upper class?

 

I'm looking for well known people who if you asked the average Thai they would recognize. Of course, individuals who are not widely known but are known to you is acceptable, but I am really looking for well known people.

 

A politician, celebrity, business person, etc. from say, Issan for example, who is now Minister of such and such.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Re: Economically successful life, GTG wrote: "THAT means she could have a considerably better job if she wants rather than working as a bg with more money in the first place."

 

 

 

My interpretation: "She could have a considerably better job [than being a prostitute] if she wants, rather than working as a bg [although as a bargirl she would have] more money in the first place."

 

 

 

What's GTG's point, if my understanding is correct? Her point is, there are other options. And she believes those options, no matter how unattractive - and undignified - are better than becoming a bargirl.

 

 

 

Regarding your second question, I'm not sure you can say major or not major. Just part of the mosaic, I guess.

[Guest]

"A politician, celebrity, business person, etc. from say, Issan for example, who is now Minister of such and such."

 

 

 

Celebrities, sure. Pumpuang, Siripon, Jintaraa, and dozens of other performers. They are famous for sure, some of them probably wealthy. Whether they are considered part of the upper class I don't know.

 

 

 

Same with politicians. Isaan has representatives, so they are going to have power and they are going to be rich. Again, how much they are accepted and integrated into the ruling class, I have no idea.

[Boo Radley]

Goodthaigril,

 

You seem to have a tendency to latch onto posts about personal relationships and give people a hard time over them, which all seems slightly one-sided.

 

Would you post up some details about your relationships (past and present)? It would be interesting to see a report of a Goodthaigirl-Goodthaiboy relationship (that is of course, assuming you like men ). It would also present the opportunity for board members to query you about them - cultural differences/similarities etc as compared to farang relationships - which may be of some interest.

 

Thanks

 

Boo