think_too_mut Posted July 3, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 >BTW, TTM, you haven't answered my questions in my earlier post ! Your ntention or just don't want to say the 'naked truth'.?????? I can't really read all your c***. I must have overlooked/skipped something but no way I'll go back through your mess to decode what you wanted to ask....If it's important, somebody else will be asking .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Maybe you might need to hang out on the New York socialite circle ---------------------------------- This makes my point that there are localized cliques, who act up their wealth, as their little rich people games will have no sense to anyone outside NY, and frankly, knowing a few N.Yorkers, not much in NY as well. they have also little to share as a "class" with other US rich people like old money in SF, or Beverley hills celluloid wealth, except $$ of course. It's just that "the rich are different" as the dictum says. If there is a class in USA, i would look into disfavored ethnic neighboroods. There you have a strong identity in the way to look, to talk, to behave, and where a stranger might not feel invited lest he asks for troubles. A class is social stratum pervasive in a whole sociey. One city does not do, and the big apple ain't USA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 your post validates my opinion that every individual is invited on Nana, of course, and we love to have GTG and others as thai women participating in it, but i think the ones who think that thais will give a thai point of view, or even if Bgs were to sign on, they'd tell us things we can't know, are mistaken. We've seen that 007 and GTG were disagreeing on this post, so welcome to everyone, but when a subject becomes entangled with emotions or open to different interpretations, their personal views are all they represent, not necessarily a thai point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Taking a clip of my statement does not prove your point because you did not use my statement in it's proper context. I preceded that clip by stating that it was a small example or sample. Last time I checked I never knew that class structures could not exist on regional levels as well as national levels. I also pointed out that class cannot neccessarily be bought into. You seem to state that America'c class system is based purely on the size of one's bank account. That is false. There can be many other criteria, such as belonging to the right family or having the proper pedigree. I seem to recall from my reading of history that many a European nobleman has married outside of their "class" for money and many a rich commoner has married into nobility because of their money. You really need to rework your definition of class beyond a social structure one is inherited into. That is a very myopic view. We do have class structures in the USA, I personally wish we didn't but alas, we do. I can see that you will not convince me otherwise and I cannot provide you with compelling evidence to change your view. I therefore will bid this topic adieu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 It is very simple. The reason for classes is to keep people in a specific social space. If they do not keep people from moving up and down, that their exitence is immaterial to the functioning of society, they are cliques. I do not know anyone in USA whose thinking or ambition is marred by social stratas you can never join or belong to eternally. capice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 I must agree with Pattaya127 on the interpretation of classes within a society, at least as it relates to this thread. I brought this issue up. The statement I made was that Thailand is a class structured society. Do other countries have different classes present within them? Of course they do. All of them. Every single one. If nothing more than a rich class, and a poor class. But....listen carefully to my statement...."Thailand, a class structured society". I was saying that Thailand's society is structured on class distinction. US is not 'structured' on class distinction. Different classes may be present, but it's society is not "structured" around this point. In fact, the poorest person in the country can sue the largest, richest corporation here if they have been discriminated against from being eligible for a job because of race, religion, ethnic background, or what region they came from. My whole point has been that a poor farm girl in Thailand is greatly at a disadvantage when trying to make a life for herself that will afford her an even 'middle class' lifestyle. Why? As Pattaya127 says, it is pre-ordained because of her background, as to what she can really realalisticly aspire to. (Shit KS, when are we going to get 'spell-check' here) This whole thread comes down to two camps. One saying that poor Thai girls are not afforded the opportinites to make something of themselves because of the conditions that exist in their world, and the other, which states that it doesn't matter....that they can reach an economicly successful life, no matter what the obsticles, if they try hard enough. This is how I'm seeing it, anyway. One more point I'd like to interject here. And that is even if there is a chance to reach the 'brass ring' of a middle class lifestyle, are poor farm girls made aware of what they might be able to accomplish? They are growing up in a very impoverished environment, and the only 'gold and glitter' they get to see is girls around them who have gone down to BK to 'work', and come back wearing gold, 'real' levis jeans, buying their parents a new house etc, not to mention the one who lived next door to them who landed a farang husband, and is now living in Germany in a 5 bedroom house....with servants. Add the fact that they are somewhat responsible for taking care of parents now.......I can see it being just sooo totaly overwelming for them. GTG (and others) ....I do understand what you are saying. Rise from the dust, and you will overcome all advercity. I will tell you that what I need to hear, in order for me to come to a conclusion about whether a Thai girl is making the decision to prostitute herself out of greed, or hopelesnes, can only be detirmined from hearing from the girls that are actually born into the position that have to make this decision. My learning of this can only be elevated, by hearing real-life stories from members relating experiences who live in their world, and know first-hand, as to what the real story is. I would think that you come here....to learn, and acquire insight, into the minds of falang sanukers. An admirable mission. But...let me leave you with a thought: No one learns anything with their mouth open. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 I wonder if TV itself is not also conducive to show them an other life,or another non-attainable other life, as i fear common people are rarely shown on thai TV (correct me if i am wrong), and if shown, rather stereotypically, the simple minded farm boy, the drinking family son, the crazy lunatic, or the demure grandma. Soaps are only euro-thai poised play-boys dealing with their crazed neurotic fairer than white Gfs. I try to point that to my GF, but she drinks it as sweet milk nonetheless. Yes, i think here's an interesting topic: what kind of thais are mainly represented on thai TV? I think GTG and our thai friends on Nana could be of help in answering that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 I can't tell you how much I thought about this while posting. TV in Isaarn....Showing what life 'should be', for them, in a 'western style'. The world is shrinking in terms of culture. I think it is a shame, in many respects. But...it is a fact of life, and I think about this a lot in trying to understand the 'pressures' that are put upon these girls. I'll advovate this as yet another reason for the pressures put on a young Thai farm girl, but I will also tell you that I think it SUCKS. I think western TV rapes the Thai people of their great culture, and itimidates them to lose it, and emulate ours. This is not a good thing. I love Thailand because of its culture. GTG, and all. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Gun Posted July 3, 2002 Report Share Posted July 3, 2002 Your wife is an ex bg as well. Ummm..interesting ! So, I know your incentive of replying my post. Well, I don't think I have ever tried to hide that fact, not on this board anyway. I don't know what you mean about my 'incentive' though. My wife's background, the circumstances in which we met and our life together since then would probably make me feel that I had something relevant to contribute to the discussion, based on experience. >you don?t seem to recognize how fortunate you were that they did work so hard. With all my story I told you and you still said that? Increadible ! Of course I know I'm fortunate because my parents worked hard and they chose their path well. I don't think it's incredible and I stand by what I said. The keyword is 'how', perhaps it should have been in capitals or bold. OK, my mistake. Next time I will say, "But I think she chose to be a bg because of the money., instead of " But she chose to be a bg because of the money." Is that good enough, teacher? (I'm not making fun of you here, I really think you are my English teacher.) Yes, that would be MUCH better. BTW I have never taught English in my life but if you would like to maintain that illusion I think we should introduce a financial element into our relationship. You can pay me in cash or beer, up to you. We are all prostitutes. >You have no idea of what other pressures were being brought to bear upon her, or anyone else. Sorry, I have some from this board and somewhere else. >The second part refers to your tendency to sound like you are talking down to people from a position of moral superiority. What's wrong with that? Having higher moral is wrong nowdays? Or only for this board? I'm not saying that you are morally superior, just that you assume you are and that your opinion is therefore more correct than that of the whores and the whoremongers. Yes, as I said my background is not THAT poor. Poor is relative. All my friends are richer than I am. So, maybe I should become a bg to be able to go out and have fun the way my friends are doing? I choose not to, ok? Many other people do choose to, OK? I think Money IS their absolute incentive for becoming a bg. Almost certainly a major factor initially but what do you think of Cleo Odzer's views about the other ways in which their choice enriches their lives and empowers them? Why do I have to accept? You can't change me and I can't or won't change your thinking. If one of us could, this board will bore us to death with the same opinions in every thread. If ONE of us could, (and people like her!), it would be a lot easier for people to just get on and try and improve their lives After all you can't because your wife is an ex bg and I know that it's hard for you to swallow that fact that your wife who also the mother of your lovely children had a choice of profession other than being a bg. What do I need to swallow? Of course she had a choice and I respect the one she made at that time. She tried lots of other 'careers' first (see the 'Making a difference' epic), who knows maybe she would have moved on to something else if I had not 'rescued' her. Just about everyone on this board is fully aware that the vast majority of the girls who we encounter have entered the profession of their own free choice, that's what we like about it, we use that fact to convince ourselves that farang-orientated prostitution in Thailand is OK. I know I've been talking things you don't want to hear. Sorry, but some one has to do it. And unfortunately, it is me. Not at all, I think it is good for us to be reminded of the attitudes that exist in certain parts of Thai society, of all the snotty-nosed shit that our friends and partners have to put up with from their 'betters'. A lot of the time it may be conveyed in verbal or non-verbal ways that are too subtle for most of us to pick up on. At least you say what you think. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted July 4, 2002 Report Share Posted July 4, 2002 We are all prostitutes. -------------------------------- I beg your pardon?.... Don't you wish, LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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