JJsushi Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Says bibblies: Says valentinoxxx: Erm... there was a survey done recently showing most Americans couldn't pinpoint countries on a map. Not a good example. Ah, here it is; http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/ Does this explain the same to you about young Americans? I went through those answers in detail and the Germans seem suspiciously good on knowing where everything is. I can picture the kids at kindergarten being drilled: "And in World War 3, we're going to invade this country first.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Says pattaya127: Scratch the surface of many, in any country & you'll get the same result.. ----------------------------------- nope, the conditions that make a BG not really curious to learn and educate herself are specifically thai, which is why we should discuss and argue on the merits of the subject itself (BG/TG too lazy to strive for better education, even if loaded with $$ sent from abroad), and leave other countries levels of ignorance alone. Once again, it's NanaP.com, not USAp.com. Your only looking at one facet of this. There are many more. You speak continuously of the lack of curiosity or desire to educate themselves. Let's talk a little reality. Many of these BG's have not even attained the level of entry level junior high school education for various reasons that were not of their choosing. You need a certificate that shows previous levels of education completed in order to enter into the next level. A girl with the equivalent of a 6th grade education cannot just decide at the age of 25 that she wants to get her high school diploma. There is no serious industry of adult education in Thailand. The current educational system is seriously rigid and very inflexible to those who get a late start. There comes a point when you reach a certain age that you can give up hope and dreams of attaining a high level of education because much of it is age based. You even see it in the Thai job market wher they purposely state the age requirements of Thai applicants. I know of a young lady who is fortunate to have left the bar scene and finish her high schooling at a once a week program. Unfortunately for her she wanted to work in the police force but she is considered too old to do so now(age 26). She now has to settle for a sales job. Carrefour will not even hire you without at least a highschool education for those who are interested. Maybe what you see as lack of curiousity or laziness is actually at times a certain pragmatic reality that going to school may not offer them a better lot in life in Thailand because of age, background, opportunity and other criteria. The girls know unlike you that they have very few opportunities after a certain age or without a certain certificate. Sending a girl to school to learn English and surf the internet is grand and all but in reality it is not going to prepare her to enter the mainstream Thai workforce. She needs the other formal educational certificates to do so. They are not easy to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted April 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 Over 60% of Americans ...... ---------------------------------------- whatever was said about americans was definitely off-topic. Please, you are welcome to discuss about BGs being clueless (or not) for good or bad reasons, but if someone brings up another country into this, i will send the hi-jacked thread to the board bar, where it would belong then. WildA will deal with it as he sees fit. Cordially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted April 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 The girls know unlike you that they have very few opportunities after a certain age or without a certain certificate. ---------------------------------- Bull. Living in SF, I know many latino immigrants who came late to schooling, still they strive in night schools to learn the language, and other skills. It has nothing to do with being too late in the game. You just can see the difference between the ones who strive and the ones who understood learning will very simply empower them. same with the girls. The smartest ones i have known were basically sponges. They learnt from every guy they met, and they did not waste in the cultural vacuum of Pattaya, for a meager 500/1000 bahts a night. Understand, it's not just going to school, it' having the opportunity to learn from guys who'd be too happy to help them. My GF, 28, is a perfect example. Her english is far from bad, orally, but she will simply not correct a lot of her mistakes, even after I told her the correct way a dozen times. She can read and write thai, still, apart from a few teenager magazines, all she will read are cartoons. This has been the main reason why, though i care for her a lot, her lack of motivation has scared me to bring her over to the States. not that she is uneducated, but that she has no motivation to learn something with plenty of time on her hands. I have been to India, cambodia, Burma, tons of uneducated there, still, you meet people who really are wanting to learn every which way they can, including while meeting tourists. Actually, i kinda agree with your premises, but i still find no excuse for people who do nothing of their days, except plucking their armpits, and gossip with Gfs ad nauseam. Again nothing to do with going to school, per say, just profiting from the contact of educated people with different experiences from theirs. never mind the thai job market. A smart girl, or one who strives, will easily find the right guy for her, then she can "finger" the thai system from abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 >>>whatever was said about americans was definitely off-topic. <<< c'mon - it's not that off topic seen in context. you started the thread here saying thai thai girls 'don't get it' citing examples how little interested they seem to be in the outside world, but then when shown that people in many western countries, america shown here as a good example, seem to be as little interested in the outside world even though having much better educational opportunities that then suddenly is 'off topic'. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2003 Report Share Posted April 8, 2003 >>>Bull. Living in SF, I know many latino immigrants who came late to schooling, still they strive in night schools to learn the language, and other skills. It <<< so that is on topic now when you cite a personal experience from the states which supports your viewpoint on the issue at hand? and a research done on the states not supporting your viewpoint is 'off topic'??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted April 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 then suddenly is 'off topic' ----------------------------------- yes, it's off-topic, because you used it just to be contradictory, and no other reason. I did not assault Tgs, and I may be contradicted, but at least use arguments and frames of references, just don't tell that americans or papuans, whoever, are ignorant period, as it does not help the specifics of the debate. Likewise, my talking about latinos is warranted, because i use the argument in reference to 3rd world poor classes, meaning an individual, anywhere around the world, can learn, even if belatedly, given the opportunity. There is no reason why BGs should not be able to question their lack of education and opportunity, and work upon it, so my reference to latinos was in reference to the debate. But in your case, you seemed to say that "who cares, rich americans are ignorant too..". Rather nihilistic, without any semblance of interest in talking about the topic in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 "Likewise, my talking about latinos is warranted, because i use the argument in reference to 3rd world poor classes, meaning an individual, anywhere around the world, can learn, even if belatedly, given the opportunity. There is no reason why BGs should not be able to question their lack of education and opportunity, and work upon it, so my reference to latinos was in reference to the debate." .......................................................................... I don't think its a fair game comparing Latinos in the US to BG's in Thailand. If you compared Latino prostitutes in the US to BG's in Thailand its more relevant. And the conclusion might be different... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 Says pattaya127: The girls know unlike you that they have very few opportunities after a certain age or without a certain certificate. ---------------------------------- Bull. Living in SF, I know many latino immigrants who came late to schooling, still they strive in night schools to learn the language, and other skills. It has nothing to do with being too late in the game. You just can see the difference between the ones who strive and the ones who understood learning will very simply empower them. Bull back at you. Your example of Latinos in the States is so way of base and not even comparable, that I am actually chuckling as I read it. 1. Latinos in the States have fled their native countries in order to achieve certain dreams supposedley promised in America. How in the world can you compare an immigrant to a Thai national who does not immigrate? 2. In America we at least try to institute a system where achieving any sort of higher education is rewarded in some manner with good job prospects. Show me the equivalent in Thailand. 3. America has a vast infrastructure and trillions of dollars invested in it's educational system for all people of all socio-economic backgrounds. You have a desire to go to school there are numerous government and private organizations that will help you in some capacity. Hell there are even huge tax benefits to do so and encourage it. Show me the equivalent in Thailand. 4. In America it is mandatory to attend school till the age of 18 if parents fail to do so they can have their children become wards of the State. Show me the equivalent in Thailand. 5. Higher education is a mantra in America. Show me the equivalent in Thailand. same with the girls. The smartest ones I have known were basically sponges. They learnt from every guy they met, and they did not waste in the cultural vacuum of Pattaya, for a meager 500/1000 bahts a night. Understand, it's not just going to school, it' having the opportunity to learn from guys who'd be too happy to help them. My GF, 28, is a perfect example. Her english is far from bad, orally, but she will simply not correct a lot of her mistakes, even after I told her the correct way a dozen times. She can read and write thai, still, apart from a few teenager magazines, all she will read are cartoons. This has been the main reason why, though i care for her a lot, her lack of motivation has scared me to bring her over to the States. not that she is uneducated, but that she has no motivation to learn something with plenty of time on her hands. Sounds more like you are basing your entire argument on your girfriend. What is the incentive of your girlfriend to learn English? What can you promise her if she speaks perfect English? The question you may need to ask is are you properly motivating your girlfriend. I hear many guys complain that the girls don't learn or have a desire to learn English. Aside from the ability to garner more English speaking customers what is the true incentive? Will English get them a job with a Thai company if they don't have a high school certificate? Maybe if they are lucky and catch a break English will help them to garner an entry level tourist job or maybe a hotel job as a cleaning girl. I now several university educated Thais with excellent jobs whose English skills are worse than the newbie BG. How has English helped their careers in Thai society? Speaking English is not the magical panacea to a great future in Thailand. I have been to India, cambodia, Burma, tons of uneducated there, still, you meet people who really are wanting to learn every which way they can, including while meeting tourists. I meet those same type of eager Thai people both in Thailand and abroad. I have been to Cambodia and Burma also and there are tons of people who cannot even read or write. How has the welfare of the Cambodians and Burmese improved today becuse of the great desire to learn you have witnessed in them. Their countries are actually dependent on Thailand as a major trade partner and investor. The countries are dirt poor and decades behind in economic growth and development compared to Thailand and that is not saying a whole lot either. I have never been to India but even with the largest educated middle class in the world they are still considered a second rate country and they had the help/hindrance of colonial rule. There are millions of Indians living abroad because of the shit opportunites available to them in their own country. I remember readng in the Economist a couple of year ago about the great Indian brain drain. I fail to see how you can even compare India to Thailand considering that the two nations are years apart. India is considered a second rate country but Thailand is considered a third rate country. I think your Thai vs. India, Mynamar, Cambodia argument is actually based off of a very jaded viewpoint; cynical at best. Actually, i kinda agree with your premises, but i still find no excuse for people who do nothing of their days, except plucking their armpits, and gossip with Gfs ad nauseam. Again nothing to do with going to school, per say, just profiting from the contact of educated people with different experiences from theirs. Show me a country that doesn't have a goup of people who sit around and do nothing and only gossip. This is not a Thai only phenomena never mind the thai job market. A smart girl, or one who strives, will easily find the right guy for her, then she can "finger" the thai system from abroad. An arrogant assumption on your part to think that a girls only ambition is to find the right guy to take her abroad or that she even wants to "finger" the Thai system. Some people don't have a problem accepting their lot in life and don't feel compelled to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 Says pattaya127: Over 60% of Americans ...... ---------------------------------------- whatever was said about americans was definitely off-topic. Please, you are welcome to discuss about BGs being clueless (or not) for good or bad reasons, but if someone brings up another country into this, i will send the hi-jacked thread to the board bar, where it would belong then. WildA will deal with it as he sees fit. Cordially Now don't you go trying to control the thread with "this is relevant and this is not nonsense". My response was relevant in the fact that it was direted to a post that stated that BG's don't care about anything outside of their everyday bar lives. My post diretly addressed that statement and if you are going to moderate then you should have done so with the initial statement from Bigfun that provoked my response. We have have gone on a tangent but it can all be traced back to your original post. Therfore there is some relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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