Guest Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 >>>Maybe I can pick your brain on that one later on?<<< no problem, i would be glad to be of assistance. of course that is no easy solution either, none is. what you said - lots of investigating. we of course had at the beginning a few setbacks, and had to find some forms of motivation (like getting one of the brothers married so that he stopped being a fool ). but now it's mainly only my missus who takes care of that (which is good for her - that gives her a lot of selfconfidence). as it seems now we don't need any larger sums to invest anymore just a bit here and there. alltogether it cost me around 400 000 baht. of course no luxuries - just the necessary: land (260K), tractor (26K), moving house and other small stuff, marriage of the brother. two months ago we finally had the pond done (free, from the sor por kor authorities) and the whole things starts soon running by itself, and they will be able to live from the land alone. most important is to find out if they are really willing to do that, not just you deciding, and then to keep motivating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Says jasmine: I am tired of listening to Western people complaining about the Thai families that they need to support. I am not at all against supporting parents on the level ones can. Of course, there are parents that are hard to be greatful to. Supporting grown siblings is another matter but a little help now and then is ok for that is what is called "family". To hear you saying that you would not marry a woman from poor family background makes me cringe, no ones want to be from poor family background. Well. . . well we have found that THAI hotbutton of yours! I agree with your statement as one dear Thai girl told me "Without my mother and father there would not be me!" She did many things to make her parents comfortable. There is a strong sense of obligation and duty in Thai children to their parents that I admire and at other times I cannot fathom, a dedication that we in the West seem to forget. That is why we have old age homes and retirement communities to take care of our elderly. They get 3 square tasteless meals a day and all of the painkillers they need to wile away the boredom as they wait to die. BTW- some forget that many Thai women enter prostitution because of the desire to take care of their parents. How many men would even contemplate having their bottoms sexually violated in order to earn money to take care of family? I honestly know I wouldn't. . . well if Bill Gates paid me $10million for 1 hour I guess I could be persuaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Says flyonzewall: >>>>What people think outrageous is that a girl will go to the extent of working in a brothel or the nightlife to send money to the family, while knowing Dad is often out binging or/and gambling, or 2 brothers/sisters (whatever) are working in BKK, but don't send money, etc..... NOT A 100% RULE, , but there is a heavy burden on the young sister or daughters to come up with the needed cash. <<<< that is one of the generalisations i cannot let stand by itself here. of course that cases are true, and way too many of those do exist. but you state that here in a way as if that would be the case with the vast majority of BGs. well, i can offer you only anectdotal evidence about the village of my missus. there are more than a few of the girls (and katoyes) in the prostitution - mostly they went themselves, some even against the explicit wishes of their parents (and in many cases leaving their husbands and children behind). what do you think those will tell their customers? that they left their husbands because they were poor, and they were just interested in making "easy" money? hardly. I can also offer anecdotal evidence that is aligned to yours. I have met many a girl that have left the village/small town and worked for years in Bangkok telling the family at home that they work in a good shop, restaurant, hotel etc. Their are also the ones who when they admit to their parents they are prostitutes actually get physically assaulted(beaten) by the father or mother because of the shame and lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Says think_too_mut: One has a relationship or ...is a bean counter. Anything simpler than that? I completely agree but I can also see the point Oran is making that there is money that is given to "help" and then money that is given that can "hinder". One has to properly assess the situation of the family in order to determine what helps and what hinders. I really don't understand why some people associate giving money in any form or family needing fincial assistance is a negative thing. Where would we all be if we did not receive "help" in whatever form from others at some point in our lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 >>>a dedication that we in the West seem to forget. That is why we have old age homes and retirement communities to take care of our elderly.<<< i guess a lot of that has also to do with increasing stress in modern life. who in the west can actually afford to work only a few hours a day to take care of the old. that's a full time job. normal couples need double income nowadays to survive. putting the old into retirement homes is also on the rise here, it is just a lot more difficult to get space in places like bangkhen (which i have seen once and thought a very good place - what is lacking in modern appliances is made up in community spirit there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Says flyonzewall: i guess a lot of that has also to do with increasing stress in modern life. who in the west can actually afford to work only a few hours a day to take care of the old. that's a full time job. normal couples need double income nowadays to survive. Barring situations where the elderly need serious medical care I have seen both sides of this coin. I did some volunteer work in a retirement home and I have never seen so many depressed and lonely people. People who can still function and have all of their facultites and don't need constant supervision. They are in these places because the children "feel" that they would be happier there or they don't want to be a "bother" to their children. Sad to see their faces light up only around holiday times or during the monthly visit. I also have some friends who insist that their single parents live in the house with them and refuse to send them to a retirement home. They find ways to make the arrangement work and don't look at a parent as an inconvenience or additional stress factor. Funny thing is that this insistence on the parent living with them occurs most amongst my Italian and Hispanic friends for some reason. I also look at it from my personal background where my grand and even great grandparents all lived under the same roof or next door to each other. I believe it was a boon to me as a child growing up because I was able to interact with those who were my history. The older folk aso did alot around the house cooking, cleaning and watching the kids while the younger adults went to work. When health became a serious issue where constant and professional care was needed then nursing homes became neccessary. I think the "modern stresses" theory is a pure cop out and it really is a question of sacrifice by the children when the issue is not a health issue or beyond the means of the childrens finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky brow Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 I think it boils down to some guys have an ego driven relationship; eg, I'm canny, handsome enough to score a girl whos family is rich enough not to (dare??) ask moi for money and my mrs lub me toooo much to even compromise me ----------------------------------------------------------------- I liked your post.It sounds funny but true.What a I can say is that I was married to t/g from a poor family for 5 years and money was sent to her family every month.Yes they needed it ,but we needed it to.Everytime they called to our house money was mentioned.Plenty of bills here to be payed that couldnt be.Basically lived on the edge(moneywise) in that relationship.My g/f now is from a middle class family and does not support her family.They dont ask or need it.It is nice to be able to save again. maybe my ego is driving me in the right direction? cheers sky brow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiHome Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Says think_too_mut: THAIHOME, Would it be appropriate to say - her family is my family? Any shame with that? If you were ( I hope it never happens) to put a price tag on their (and your wife's esteem, directly corelated) well being, how far could you stand? "I don't want to give, they have never asked, they even give me money" - is not a common reality. Should the families sit still - there is always something we can improve. For them, for us, for the children...I can't see what's wrong with that. Not sure I understand the point or tone of your response :: Yes, her family is my family. Certainly no shame. In the group of friends I have with Thai wives, we have exactly the opposite reaction most people have on this board, we brag about how much our wives? spend and how much the family costs. I am nowhere near world class. I am very happy to give whatever she thinks is appropriate. I am happy because it makes her happy. I am happy for myself that I can truly make a difference to good people who would have never stood a chance otherwise. I hope I am doing the things that will allow the cycle of lack of education and poverty to broken in this family. I am confident that once I do this for those that are children now, they will continue it on for their children. I also know that these children will be taking care of their parents (hopefully including me ) when we get old. How far will I go? I trust my wife to do the right thing. It is, after all, her future as well. She is much more consciences then I in saving for our retirement. If she were to empty out our Thai bank account and give to her mother, then yes, I would be angry, Would I walk away from the relationship, probably not. I would tell her we have to live with her mother in the village when we retire. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky brow Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 I also look at it from my personal background where my grand and even great grandparents all lived under the same roof or next door to each other. I believe it was a boon to me as a child growing up because I was able to interact with those who were my history. The older folk aso did alot around the house cooking, cleaning and watching the kids while the younger adults went to work ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I am right off track but these words you print hit home with me.My grands lived across the road from my parents home as a young boy.Then later as they were older were looked after by Mum &Dad.I learnt a lot from them and the memories are great.It taught me to have respect for my elders no matter what nationality.It gives a wider range of thinking when you need it most.If that makes any sense. cheers sky brow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 >Not sure I understand the point or tone of your response According to your post, you've got my point. And I've got yours. Other than agreeing with you, nothing else to say. There was (and still is) an uncharted theritory of people making it work with TGs, bgs or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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