MaiLuk Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 >>many people in europe see it that way: bush went in not even allowing a vote in the UN, against the advice of american keypartners in europe. now, after nearly all was exposed as lies, and his predictions were wrong, the UN is supposed to pull bush out of the mess he created? << Yes it is not easy to to overcome the perception (or reality) that the UN was bypassed and therefore has no responsibility to take action. This in turn creates/fuels the perception in the US that the UN is becoming impotent and will result in more george bush's in the future. The argument you make does show that its anti-bush types in the UN driving policy rather than a genuine interest in helping iraq. Intellectuals in iraq must marvel at the politics at the UN that prevents help from arriving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 OK no more replies from me. Back to another hurricane that is once again on top of me at this moment :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 jxxxl said:The UN is inept, useless, and impotent. They can't and wont do shit to help the situation in Iraq or anywhere else. Whenever I hear some Eurpoean mention the UN, as if it should be taken seriously, I have to chuckle. So jxxxl, on one hand you whine when throught your tinted glasses someone seems to be US-bashing, and on the other hand, you should be allowed to do the same ? BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxxxl Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 No BB, not exactly. I'm just so tired of reading posts by bleating liberal cry babies like yourself so I couldn't help myself. BTW, I thought I accused you of constantly whining. Couldn't you come up with a more original shot, perhaps like telling me to complete words? I wait with great anticipation for your biting retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Where are you Mailuk? In Florida? Haiti took a terrible hit the other day. This seems to get worse every year. Good luck and take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Don't think BB is really anti American at all, I know him rather well. As for Bleeding hearts, I am one. Not always was, but got that way. I was once an Army officer who voted for Reagan once. But I do get fed up with all these other countries, many of who's asses we helped save (didn't do it alone), and now want to jump on us for going to help someone else. Yes, I was against going into Iraq, Afganistan was questionable, now I think a mistake, or un needed, not sure. Still am not happy with GWB, want to see him in Jail frankly, Cheney et al as well. BUT GOD DAMMIT NOT EVERYTHING IS OUR FUCKING FAULT! We were quiet, and minding our own business until wars poped up in Europe and later Europe again and the Pacific. Some say all started over money and special interests, but what isn't? or hasn't ever been over money and special interets? True, the U.S. put an embargo on Japan of oil and raw materials, But in response to Japan's activities and threats, then they bombed us, we retaliated...Big time! Germany wanted to dominate the word (well Hitler did, the rest got caught up in it all), we and the rest of Europe said "fuck that" and kicked ass. Now, the question is, if someone rises up and wants to dominate you, are you wrong for fighting back? and if you win, is turn about fair play? wanted to dominate us? you lost, so now you are our bitch, plain and simple. As in any situation, you can blame anyone for any thing, and they will have justification for it. We can go back and forth on it until we get tyo the end of time, or back to the beginning of time. That said, no justification for current events it appears, but who really knows? ALso, I agree, I would like to see the US stand with it's former allies a bit more in terms of global "domination" and not be the front runners in it. Problem is, this last time around, a lot of different groups had their own selfish special interests. Some had lucrative oil contracts or investments to protect, others had Halliburton to answer to. Now back to the topic at hand. These guys who died, knew the risks. This is how they lived. Does not give anyone a right to write them off the way some have. These were our fellow man, fellow sanukers/los lovers in some cases. Many of us knew them, or shared a common bond one way or another. SO no need for some of the nasty comments made here. This could happen to anyone of us, at any time. Hell suppose we are in a bar and it gets bombed? is it our fault for going to a country with known Muslim extreamists? So those left can bad mouth us? Hell no. Sorry, but bad mouthing the dead is just plain wrong if they didn't die breaking any laws etc...now back to Sanuk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 >>>The argument you make does show that its anti-bush types in the UN driving policy rather than a genuine interest in helping iraq. Intellectuals in iraq must marvel at the politics at the UN that prevents help from arriving. <<< no, they are a bit too pragmatic for such an emotional reaction. don't forget, there are highly sophisticated mathematical methods which do to a certain degree predict when, and under which circumstances a peace mission might be successful, or a war might be successful. a genuine interest in helping irak sounds nice, but i am afraid that interventions are not decided by intent but by chances of success. bush, and his clique, from the beginning have not shown much intent to collaborate, neither with his partners, nor with the UN. any criticism of his policy, as well founded it was, was straght away rejected. his intelligence was at best faulty, at worst a completely manufactured fraud, and it was pointed out to him, but to no avail. he had to go in. as reality shows us every day, everything that could go wrong in irak went wrong. so, don't blame the UN for not running to his summons. they cannot afford to decide because they feel sorry, or they wish to help - they have to make very clear analyses if there is a chance of success. and right now, apart from the chaos in irak, one big hindrance of success is the high handed and uncompromising ways of present US leadership. what use is it to barge in with some emotionally guided gutfeeling to help, when there is just no successful way at this time to help? why should the UN or europe be drawn in into the same catastrophy the US finds itself presently? a catastrophy that is to blame purely on the the US and britain? i am sorry, if the UN or europe hope to preserve a chance for one day to help sorting out the mess, they should presently stay as far away from the mess to keep some integrity, so that at a later point, when chances are better, they can achieve something there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 jxxxl said:No BB, not exactly. I'm just so tired of reading posts by bleating liberal cry babies like yourself so I couldn't help myself. BTW, I thought I accused you of constantly whining. Couldn't you come up with a more original shot, perhaps like telling me to complete words? I wait with great anticipation for your biting retort. naaahhhhh I dont reply to namecalling and to hollow posts that do not contribute to any added value BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hi, Okay, guys, that's it. Time to shut this thread down. You all know why Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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