The end of sanuk?

[pattaya127]

quote:

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Originally posted by Scum_Baggio:

Pattaya 127,

undernourished does not necessarily mean "flirting with starvation"; it means either that the people concerned don't get the amount of calories to eat that they burn up in their daily lives (call it getting a bit more haggard day by day) or - more likely - that they can't afford food which provides them with the necessary vitamins and other nutritients that they need. It's bad enough, but maybe not as dramatic as your phrase implies.

I myself have seen Issan kids pick out maggots from buffalo droppings which were then used as food. Maybe I'm wrong and the maggots are considered a local delicacy.

Have you ever spoken to an Isaan farmer? Why do they go to Bangkok in between harvests to make some money? The average rice farmer that I've spoken to produces 2-3 tons of rice per year, to be sold at a maximum of 5 Baht per kilo. That makes at best 15,000 Baht - per year! Subtract from that the costs of fertilizer, farmhands to be paid etc., and there'll be a pittance left. Unfortunately, due to water shortage in most places in Isaan there's only one harvest per year (unlike in Central and Southern Thailand). They may not be starving they way we saw in Biafra or Bangladesh in the seventies, but things are certainly far from hunky-dory.

[ August 14, 2001: Message edited by: Scum_Baggio ]

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Indeed, so, they go to BKK and else to make money. AS you said. The ground/dung-eating stuff was part of a tv docu on thai TV, and the BKK "bourgeoisie" thought "how horrific?", "in our beautiful country? Oh, no", until it was shown after that the media overplayed it again, and that had been a common practice for old Issan folks who may still transmit it to the poorer kids. So undernourrished really means missing nutrients. may have to do with the staple diet they are on, with the fact that indeed they are poor but are used to make do with this staple diet for the last decades. Shit! i 've been with issan girls (the daughters of the farmers you mention, and i slept more than once with the mosquitoes to the sound of gecko crowing, in stilted houses) who eat next to nothing, day after day though i was there to provide. To be honest, some eat 8 times a day, but they say, "in my village/family, people same like me"

But, Scum, i am one to say that problems of poverty really exist in Thailand, but since i had the good luck to know LOS for a long time, Issan too, it is hard not to see the improvements done in these many years.

About our friend Mr Thaksin, if you read my post well, you'd have understood "not solely for the money" is what my thai friend meant. Believe me, he is no naive pumpkin. he just waits and sees, and Thaksin's previous deeds just show he can be a smart man. who cares about P.D. or any "u name it" thai party, anyway? If he only cares to get richer, why causing dissent with the very people who enriched thai tycoons like him or if not him, many of his friends, the americans and europeans. I think it's a key-hole view of forces at work. Granted, he will use his position to self-advantage , they all do, but what is looming behind his policies is the fact that they liked the US pre-1997, but hate to be told after the crisis: "u got to do this, u got to do that" in Uncle Sam's fashion. And they got a point, all corrupted that they are. So, what he wants (that could explain his anti-farang policies) is establish a strong SEA and Asian zone where Thailand can tie up with its neighbours (not so much laos, Ahah! but China, Japan, etc...), a bit away from the american sphere of influence,just like the europeans are doing. Where he is smart is that he can see the global world is not about unilateral countries dealing freely with each other, that's impossible, but about strong economic and political zones who can be part of the global competition for goods and services. I mean, they say we are getting into the Asian Century, so here are the first results maybe. Thanks for the cordial exchanges. Think i'm running out of arguments!!!! LOL

[btm1735]

I have seen referances to Guns, Girls, Gambling, Ganga. I am not sure if anybody siting this work has actually studied it. Page 86 says that money from drug smuggling amount to twice Thailand's legit exports. I think the rest of book proves that Thailand's economy is corrupt. Cleaning up the farang sex sceene will not hurt Thailand one way or another. My guess is that they could care less about Westerners. I think they want to be the vacation spot for China amd they will clean up to please the powers that be in China. Small tourist dollars from a billion Chinamen is probably better than more per person from maybe a million westerners.

[Guest]

Originally posted by pattaya127:

"... i am one to say that problems of poverty really exist in Thailand, but since i had the good luck to know LOS for a long time, Issan too, it is hard not to see the improvements done in these many years."

Yes, there have been improvements, especially in the infrastructure, better roads, more livable, modernish towns etc. All the improvements, like in all of the rest of Thailand too, were the result of the pre-crash boom days. Let's see what'll happen now that the country is technically bankrupt (80 billion dollars debt as opposed to 32 billion dollars in reserves). There's a debt of 60,000 Baht on every Thai's head, toddler or geriatric.

"About our friend Mr Thaksin, if you read my post well, you'd have understood "not solely for the money" is what my thai friend meant."

Oh, I got that. That's why I wrote "naive Thai thinking". I don't know if your friend is a "pumpkin", but like most Thais he seems to be fooling himself (in my mind). If you read Thai history you'll see that the Thais have been exploited by their "phoo-yai" for centuries - corvee labour, slavery, and the tradition of the people in power to "eat the land" (kin mueang). A Frenchman called Fournereau wrote in the second half of the 19th century that 20% of the people, the ruling class, were living off the toil of the remaining 80% - things have taken on a different, more modern face now, but I believe in substance the statement still holds very much true, even in present-day Thaksin-ruled Thailand.

I''m not running out of arguments (my problem is that I never do!), but I think we've made our respective positions abundantly clear.

Cheers, SB

[Stickman]

"The reason l think this is so, is ask yourself what brought you here in the first place, holiday? work? passing through? any of these maybe, but what made the place so interesting, culture? thai smile? can make a shitload of money here? l think not!"

Well, I can honestly say that it was never my intention to relocate to Thailand for the women. My plan was always to stay in Phuket and lead a bit of a relaxed lifestyle near the beach while teaching English. In my case, I sort of fell into the pit that is the farang oriented prostitution business. Luckily, I managed to crawl out of it. A bit of misbehaving here and there still happens from time to time, but it happens less and less often... I think you'd be surprised how many people relocated here for reasons OTHER THAN THE WOMEN!

Stick

[shamus]

WEll stickman, surprise surprise!!!! but l myself did not come here for the women, but it certainly is a bonus, l actually came here like yourself, to live on a island and its lifestyle (Koh Samui)

Not being a teacher, or wanting to teach, l had to find something to do, what can l do?, l have a background in tourism, but the thais wont allow that.

So maybe l invest?, now after studying the language in my home land for near on 2 years, {reading and writing} and trying to make sure l had a good insight into this place, which is near impossible.

l did invest some money into bungalows, but wrong choice of partner and many of the usual circumstances that come with place, l now find myself here in Bangkok.

Not the place l really want to be, but l am attached, like yourself Khun Sanuk, nice rented house, TG of nearly 2 years, life ok!

But l still say the sanuk scene is one huge reason why most guys would want to stay on in Bangkok, it is why most guys come back to this place after the visit/ holiday or pass through.

True or False????????

[pattaya127]

quote:

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Originally posted by Scum_Baggio:

Originally posted by pattaya127:

"... i am one to say that problems of poverty really exist in Thailand, but since i had the good luck to know LOS for a long time, Issan too, it is hard not to see the improvements done in these many years."

Yes, there have been improvements, especially in the infrastructure, better roads, more livable, modernish towns etc. All the improvements, like in all of the rest of Thailand too, were the result of the pre-crash boom days. Let's see what'll happen now that the country is technically bankrupt (80 billion dollars debt as opposed to 32 billion dollars in reserves). There's a debt of 60,000 Baht on every Thai's head, toddler or geriatric.

"About our friend Mr Thaksin, if you read my post well, you'd have understood "not solely for the money" is what my thai friend meant."

Oh, I got that. That's why I wrote "naive Thai thinking". I don't know if your friend is a "pumpkin", but like most Thais he seems to be fooling himself (in my mind). If you read Thai history you'll see that the Thais have been exploited by their "phoo-yai" for centuries - corvee labour, slavery, and the tradition of the people in power to "eat the land" (kin mueang). A Frenchman called Fournereau wrote in the second half of the 19th century that 20% of the people, the ruling class, were living off the toil of the remaining 80% - things have taken on a different, more modern face now, but I believe in substance the statement still holds very much true, even in present-day Thaksin-ruled Thailand.

I''m not running out of arguments (my problem is that I never do!), but I think we've made our respective positions abundantly clear.

Cheers, SB

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Well, even France was run by 5% exploiting 95% til the XXth century. Except in Europe, they also sent them to the butchery of world war 1. Talking about France of which i am a citizen (dual with american), guess what is the main source of import? yep, tourism. UP to 30 million people cross its borders yearly. I think it is still the first destination in the world for tourism. About my thai friend: We were just having a chat and cigarette and i was telling him about the talks from farangs on the board. he is about as concerned as me, which is little, but as a thai, not being as judgemental as us farangs, even if he knows the true nature of politics in LOS. I also think that 49% americans fooled themselves last November. It's the nature of political debate: "I am right and you are stupid and wrong". I tend to feel like you feel about LOS, but as i grow older, i also like to question how much i really know, if what i know means exactly what it seems to mean, and how entitled i am to think i know exactly what's going on?

[Guest]

Originally posted by pattaya127:

"Scum, do you ever sleep?"

Not at 1:30 in the afternoon, mon ami!

[pattaya127]

Ahah! It's just that i posted this am (pacific time), you replied, early afternoon, you replied, and then now. What's your day like today in BKK? your Ami.

[Palatkik]

quote:

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Originally posted by Snake Head:

I was talking to a BG today

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This has to be one of the dumbest threads yet? Thais have had sanuk in their lives since before most us ever new how good life could be. You think they are going to let that go?

ROTFLMAO.

[Guest]

"Originally posted by pattaya127:

What's your day like today in BKK? your Ami."

Slightly grey, leaden skies with a bit of occasional sun peeping through. From my flat I overlook the Chao Phraya River, a temple, a little village of old-time Thai houses - tres jolie (sorry, can't find the right accent on my keyboard).

I'm actually working and that implies pounding the keyboard anyhow, so a little diversion here and there is quite welcome.

A prochain (which should be "till later", but but it's been a while since French classes, so I may be embarrassingly wrong). SB.