khunsanuk Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 Hi, pattaya127 said: "so nanaplaza.com should become: www.I live in a really nice house, have a beautiful, loving wife, a good job (for now anyway) and lots of close friends.com and no more of than green woman gyrating around a pole, welcoming us ............... " I guess so. I never said that I would like to see the scene go (I don't, although judging from some of the replies I got people seem to think I do), but my life would not be influenced that much. Nanaplaza.Com is only a small part of my life, and even though I like working on it and would hate to see it go down, if it does I'll find something else to do. Maybe we should have a small poll on whether people would go home if the scene disappeared? Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 14, 2001 Report Share Posted August 14, 2001 quote: Originally posted by chicago dave: I can't predict anything with certainty, (who can?) but if you follow things from an economic perspective, it won't be eradicated any time soon because too much of Thailand's economic health (relatively speaking) is tied up with it. According to an article on SCT the farang orientated sex scene accounts for only 3% of prostitution in LOS. So if prostitution accounts for 12% of GDP then the farang sex scene is .36% of GDP - hardly enough to affect Thailand's economic health.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 Stickman says; "Well, I can honestly say that it was never my intention to relocate to Thailand for the women. My plan was always to stay in Phuket and lead a bit of a relaxed lifestyle near the beach while teaching English. In my case, I sort of fell into the pit that is the farang oriented prostitution business" Well, That is a fair call Mr. Stickman, and I don't doubt you. That sounds like a very sound and justified reason for coming to Thailand. Don't forget we all start off on a different foot and also live in different shoes but many of our wanderings often lead down the same path at some time or other. It's easy enough to judge others and step up high and proud and say 'I didn't come here for the sex!, I'm not a SEX TOURIST!!', but hell, it sure seems that some people really come around quickly and fill those shoes, even if it is only for a short period of time. So, I thought I will have a look at the website in your profile URL and see what else you have to say.... Don't get me wrong I don't want to assume too much about you (after all I have never met you), but I will just make a passing observation. Many people seem to assume too much knowledge about what the "sex scene" in Thailand is all about. I am not an anthropologist nor do I have a degree in sociolology, and I would never really dare to write any thing resembling true understanding of the existence of the sex scene in Thailand. But to bring about a somewhat personal understanding of our experience in it (in laymans language) admitedly is useful. I guess that's what this little (or should we say disconcertingly large) hobby web site of yours purports to do. Quite frankly, some of the stuff within is informative but elsewhere I cringed with embarrassment as you try to educate us all on the importance of Condoms and HIV. Overall, I noted a condescending tone within it. Anyway, the fact that it has"slowly been put together since November 1998 as a guide to those seeking information about sex and prostitution in Thailand, particularly Bangkok" , and "is written for all of the people who want to come to Thailand and enjoy sex with the very willing and readily available girls here." is a little difficult for me to come to grips of where you stand regarding whether you think the existence of a "sex scene" is a good thing or not. Well, it seems that you, and many others (myself included) spend a fair bit of time on this board discussing the Thai 'sex scene' and the merits of particular establishments etc. You seem to appear at times to take a certain stance on prostitution and the dangers of becoming involved in it and also say that you never have nor would probably never engage in prostitution abroad stating that when you "come to Thailand and enjoy the pleasures of the women of the night it simply doesn't feel like prostitution.. It is more akin to renting a girlfriend for the night - and that is what makes it so special, enthralling and for some, downright addictive." Does this help justify any moral dilemma one may have? And upon furthur reading you say that you "prefer not to talk about price before hand because as much as anything, it actually makes it more like a business transaction and less like an intimate experience." I really feel you should abstain from it totally if you are having any kind of moral troubles coming to terms with playing in this kind of industry. You did state yourself that you hate it when people refer to it as the 'sanuk scene' and it should and always be called a 'sex scene'. Without trying to make too big a judgement, this all has a more than faint hint of hypocrisy to my ears. Professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess is a funny thing. And so, finally ..."Imagine what would happen if the farang scene suddenly disappeared and 1000s of sex craved horny farangs started descending upon all of the massage parlours that attract predominantly Thais? Oh, it would be hillarious! There are always those fools around who tell me that the farang scene will disappear one day... Don't worry, the scene is here to stay." Is this your wish? or your worry? Just my take on things, Dan. ==================================== [ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Dan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 ref DAN's post 23:37 : would everybody please stay dead quiet til mr. stickman opens fire. this will be an interesting wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 Originally posted by pattaya127: "Well, even France was run by 5% exploiting 95% til the XXth century. ... Talking about France of which i am a citizen (dual with american), guess what is the main source of import? yep, tourism. UP to 30 million people cross its borders yearly. I think it is still the first destination in the world for tourism." The French Revolution (1789-93) was a monumental event, a mile-stone in Western civilisation, which created the impetus to do away with many abuses of authority, etc. Unfortunately, its achievements were not duplicated everywhere, or at all times. France, about the same size as Thailand, gets 55-60 million tourists per year and is indeed the world leader in this respect (the US had 50.9 million in 2000). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 Originally posted by Dan: [QB]Stickman says; [qb]"Well, I can honestly say that it was never my intention.... Well-written, Dan. No special finger-pointing, especially at Stick, whom i've never met, but it is true that many times the feeling you get from people staying in in LOS or neighbouting countries sounds a bit like: "me expat, you tourist!", or even "me NGO worker, you sex tourist!". Still, I am surprised about his making a seemingly righteous distinction between Sanook and sex as the nightlife goes, in the light of these excerpts from the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 From what I understand, LOS is somewhat limited with regard to direct foreign investment relative to other countries. However, in a sense, the sanuk/sex scene is a form of investment...even better, there is no required rate of return. As long as the investor/john is satisfied then all goes pretty smoothly and we all love the transaction. Aside from the international pressure, does anyone question the motives of Thaksin to be anything other than genuine? I'm not suggesting otherwise, but couldn't he be killing two birds with the same stone. It would seem natural to assume that the laws of supply and demand are in effect regarding the drug trade, sex trade, and bar scene... to mention only a few. They exist in a "free" market. Could the owners of these type establishments also welcome the limitations imposed by Thaskin, thereby, limiting the supply (hours of operation) and helping to prop up prices as a whole. The demand for the scene in Thailand does not appear to be decreasing any. Along with the devaluation of the baht in 1997, it seems plausible that Thaskin could be killing more than one bird with the same stone....that is appearing more legitimate to the international community regarding controlling the drug trade and sex industry while at the same time improving conditions for local business owners and possibly the lasses that survive. I don't have any stats, if they are even available, to compare what kind of growth Thailand has seen in tourism since the devaluation. But I would speculate that it has become considerably cheaper to visit LOS than pre-devaluation. Maybe this is all an exercise in economics not to mention what kind of foreign aide may be at stake should the Thai gov't not clean up the scene a bit. All they need to do is reduce the exposure to acceptably perceived levels...but who really believes that it will ever disappear. I've spoken to a lot of Viet vets...of which some of you may be....all due respect...that talk about how Thai. was a transit spot for drugs back during the "conflict" as well as a thriving sex trade....we're talking 35-40 years at least. How many generations of bar girls do some families have in them. Point...obviously a cultural thing that would take a really long time to overcome. And that's my two cents+ It's all a conspiracy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Scum_Baggio: Originally posted by pattaya127: "Well, even France was run by 5% exploiting 95% til the XXth century. ... Talking about France of which i am a citizen (dual with american), guess what is the main source of import? yep, tourism. UP to 30 million people cross its borders yearly. I think it is still the first destination in the world for tourism." The French Revolution (1789-93) was a monumental event, a mile-stone in Western civilisation, which created the impetus to do away with many abuses of authority, etc. Unfortunately, its achievements were not duplicated everywhere, or at all times. France, about the same size as Thailand, gets 55-60 million tourists per year and is indeed the world leader in this respect (the US had 50.9 million in 2000). Yep, napoleon screwed big time! you are right, the 30 million figure is i recall for foreign tourists going to the french riviera during the summer. Ans so,i was talking with a friend about our little argument and he was pitying thais who have to live on 5000 bahts a month to which i replied, well, why don't they do their revolution like we did in 1789, 18something, 1936 and 68. Telepathy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 Pattaya127, I just found the latest statistics on tourism in France. Up to 1995, there were indeed 55-60 million tourists. The figures rose consistently, and in 2000 the country received a record 75 million, an increase of 2,7% over the preceding year. Voila. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 15, 2001 Report Share Posted August 15, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Scum_Baggio: Pattaya127, I just found the latest statistics on tourism in France. Up to 1995, there were indeed 55-60 million tourists. The figures rose consistently, and in 2000 the country received a record 75 million, an increase of 2,7% over the preceding year. Voila. Scum, do you ever sleep? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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