Sin Sot, when is 1,000,000 baht too much?

[Guest]

Farangbaa

Your right. Being in my mid thirties, and having a fantastic wife for 10 years, I’m very fortunate and I believe that the wife’s support is also required to make it work.

I did see around me many divorces from Thai/Farang couples, and I would say that for 90% is all about face, status & money. The girl needs to adapt a bit from her side, as I have to do it from my side and this takes time and energy.

Anyway, to come back on the original message of this post, I was trying to make this point to Steffi, as his G/F appears not to take an active role in the negotiations.

[Guest]

KS:

Sorry, you're much longer departed from that lovely country as I am, so mistake forgiven, but the saying translates to:

"The host is how he trusts trust his guests".

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

"You put words in my mouth. No automatic assumption."

I may have put words in your mouth, but I, and I am sure many others, read the statement "...... if you carry life insurance CANCEL IT NOW." as implying that she would do her best to get her hands on it, even if it meant killing her husband. Can't really think of any other way how to read it actually.

I would say you are very much guilty of "automatic assumption".

"and I speak as one who was caught and suffered."

Which explains your attitude, but it does not mean that everybody's first priority is money and getting as much of it from the husband as possible.

This girl (and her family) may or may not be like that (and for what it is worth, I think the family most likely is), but you are generalizing that all Thais are like this.

"By the way, what’s your background and experience, Khun Sanuk? Have you lived with a Thai family?"

Married for 1.5 years, spend quite a bit of time upcountry with the in-laws, had the in-laws over at the house twice for a couple of days. In all the time I have known them I have never been asked for money, not even when my wife's sister was in the hospital. Instead they called her to borrow the money and I only found out about it 2 weeks later.

A sample of 1 which, just like your sample of 1, means nothing.

I am not saying that the attitudes you describe don't exist, they do (and not just in Thailand either), but you make it sound like everybody in Thailand has this attitude. That is what I have a problem with.

Sanuk!

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

"Sorry, you're much longer departed from that lovely country as I am, so mistake forgiven, but the saying translates to:

"The host is how he trusts trust his guests"."

Oops, guess I have been gone a bit too long. Oh well, the idea is similar.

Sanuk!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farangbaa:

Khun Flyzonewall

I’d say genius8 thought quite carefully before posting that above, and his logic is no more flawed than yours.

Nobody cares, eh. You said it, and I agree there. Their way or no way, right. Pay up and shut up…..who’s wants the money?…..who’s got the money?

Another person posting before thinking? I’d categorize that as leaning to offensive. Interfere? How can good advice not interfere? Isn’t that the point? The aim of advice is to interfere, or let’s say influence. Much the same thing. Every time you talk to someone you’re interfering. If the use of profanity is his preferred style, that’s his choice. Surely his mild use of it can hardly trouble a mature, worldly man reading posts on a public forum. Your having us on. People could say laziness to take the trouble to spell correctly and ignore typos were as annoying as his use of profanity. Thais don’t care about customs in the US because they don’t give a flying fuck (whoops) about farangs except for their money. Or let’s say the money’s prioritized at the top of the list. If the feelings on her side were real then she wouldn’t give a damn about the money, would she? Constructive criticism to a Thai. Please. Adapt. Yes, so long as it’s the farang who adapts. ……be reasonable, see it my way, …….and so on and so on. The only thing you got right here is that Western values are met with thinly disguised contempt, if you can get them to listen to you in the first place. At 7 and a half years with a Thai wife I’d say you are a very luck man and a true exception to the rule. What’s your secret? (and Khun Sanuk is guilty of profanity too)[/QB]

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my secret is simple: ADAPTATION.

as being the partner with the higher education, the more experience with different cultures it is my responsibility to adapt first to understand her. then i can help her to adapt to my culture. that has happened. also, as i posted before, carefully choosing, not letting my dick getting in the way of my brain and heart (there is a difference).

you, farangbaa, seem to be one of the many cynics who propagate the myth of thai against farang. that i see as offensive, so are your generalisations about thais.

let me ask you, how long have you been living in thailand, and how well do you speak thai?

or is it just the bad experience you had?

[Guest]

flyonzewall wrote:

steffi,

unfortunately IT seems to be one of the very few things where foreigners can make a career of here in thailand, if you don't want to teach english.

when you think about career change, then do your research well. it is not going to be easy to make a living in thailand, but not impossible.

good luck with your relationship, don't listen to the retards who compare marriage with how many short times they could afford instead of paying dowry. or even how much they have to pay to an impoverished father for the use of his daughter.

--Khun FlyOnWall,

You mock me. the wise Chinese peoples have a saying, 'experience is everything'. At a rough guess i'd say this young man is inexperienced in a number of matters in addition to the business of marriage and its consequences. FYI, i have 'trusted' 2 Thai women in relationships, 1 b'g liar and one m-class witch in disguise.

here's a fellow who has marriage problems before he's even got up to the alter. and career problems too.

if he hands over the million mumsy will pocket the cash in all likelihood, it unless escrow is a stipulation. bye-bye one million baht. and it looks like he's not exactly rolling in bucks as it is. he's an IT fellow and there are no IT jobs right now. how is he going to maintain his darling wife. as a Thai married to a farang she will, in all likelihood, desire to live as farangs live, better than their Thai counterparts and her 15K won't go very far. If he doesn't come up to speck PDQ on the earnings front he's going to have one big set of very unhappy in-laws whispering guess what in their precious daughter's charming ear hole, with a nice easy million tucked away.

***it would take the daughter and the old man two to three years minimum TOGETHER to earn before taxes, 3-5 years after taxes, but of course in reality it would never happen because their earnings are maxed out already. a million is not so critical to me me, but for them, hey, they might even be able to buy some furniture.

so now there are TWO strong resons to anticipate a short marriage. maybe they are a respectable family, whatever that means, but they appear to be in the process of duping this poor wretch who they hope won't discover her going rate, with their GREED. In my book this makes them dishonest and not one little bit respectable.

what is a worrying set of problems today caused by this greedy pair of parents, with a g'f who won't support him will be crystal clear to him three years from now when he will be wishing his decisions had not been so emotionally biased.

Nice of you to wish him luck. Do you think it'll be useful? Planning your life on luck isn't very good advice.

The best advice you gave him was to research a career change well, which would be most inadvisable in view of his investment to date in his specialty; IT is troughing and will resurge more strongly than in the 90's. bear in mind the computer industry is barely 40 years old and already the world's largest sector.

you advise him not listen to retards in which category you belong after reading your paltry offering. I, however, do not. If he heeds my advice he will be one million baht richer than if he listens to yours. hopefully he will also be clear of a situation with numerous caution signals. Not a good start. he can then prioritize his life in an intelligent way and concentrate his mind on developing his career more intelligently, which by the way would give him the luxury of picking from countless charming middle-class ladies anywhere in the world.

By the way, if you lived in a remote village in Thailand without a female companion and an impoverished father offered you (the use of)his daughter for 3000 baht a month, and you liked the look of her, how would you respond?

[Guest]

farangbaa,

Well, if there ain't any IT jobs right now here, how comes that i have more than a few friends who earn shitloads of money in the IT business living here in Bangkok?

Two failed relationships with thai women. Of course none of the fault is with you. The cynic you are you became afterwards?

Your speculations about the income and financial security of steffi's fiancee's family are nothing else than speculations. I go with the facts offered by steffi:

>So, I've never been given any idea of what her family's financial situation is.<

>her father is a government employee highly regarded in his province<

That means, that his future wife is definetly above middle class. Usually people in these positions do not need to depend on their salaries as government employees.

What is the problem with wishing someone good luck or planning ones life on it? Your plans did not seem to have worked out that well. maybe being less paranoid would have been better for you also.

Why no career change if he is not happy with his present career? I am not in the IT business, neither wish to be. I have a career which does not make much money, but fulfills me completely. In this aspect I am a happy man. I have always dreamed to be in the profession I am in now. There are more important things than money.

To answer your last question, when i was living in some impoverished village in another Asian country, i got similar offers which I refused, because I had the feeling that the woman offered was not very happy with such a situation. Also, I did not speak the language well enough to find out what the girl thought about it.

The question is not if I like the look of her, the question is, does she want to be the paid consort of me?

You have a serious attitude problem, no wonder your relationships failed. How many more do you need until you will learn your lesson?

But what do I care?

[Guest]

How many of your friends got their jobs post crash? slight difference here. Not everyone lost their jobs so many of your friends are making money. if they did they’ll find it difficult to get a new one till the players who were not eliminated by the shakeout enter a new growth cycle that will come later. If he’s skilled and determined he’ll get a new job in time but this is not the right time for this young man to think about pursuing a career in Thailand where he will be paid poorly in the unlikely event he gets anything at all, unless he works for a foreign company and they post him to Thailand that’s just as unlikely in this climate.

Failed relationships? Damn good thing. If the wifey had been honest and revealed her true sinister intentions that’s one thing but learning often happens after the fact. No, I’m no more cynical now than before but every experience teaches something positive. What you see as cynicism is merely caution now. Or pragmatism. The marriage was an experiment never to be repeated. Marrying a prostitute is loaded with high risk. I could afford the loss of time and money. And I did have a lot of fun. Most of it was good. Few regrets. I was led by my dick (romance), she was led by someone else’s (very large) bank account (business). But that’s OK. She’s a prostitute simply performing her chosen role in life successfully.

You wrote: Your speculations about the income and financial security of steffi's fiancee's family are nothing else than speculations. I go with the facts offered by steffi:

>So, I've never been given any idea of what her family's financial situation is.<

>her father is a government employee highly regarded in his province<

That means, that his future wife is definetly above middle class. Usually people in these positions do not need to depend on their salaries as government employees.

----Speculations? only to a degree. 2 storey 3-bed house is a good indicator though. Little furniture is a good indicator. Don’t you think?

Your comment here likewise ‘nothing but speculation’. You speculate on the old man’s income. He may or may not have other income but we do know there is little furniture and a 3-bed, 2-up house. Is the family in debt?

>So, I've never been given any idea of what her family's financial situation is.<

----Not true. He’s known this girl for some time and he’s observed this family’s spending patterns, knows what cars they have, how they dress, what they do for entertainment, he can see their standard of living at a glance. His statement is inaccurate. But if he still doesn’t know enough perhaps he should put some effort into finding out because if they are in debt it will come back to him later. They want to know all about his assets and income, don’t they. There are suggestions they want his existing assets put in joint names. Nice people, huh. I’ve never heard such a suggestion in my life.

Un-fucking-unbelievable.

Raped by a dirty shovel. Some nerve. Bespeaks contempt and disrespect.

-----Highly regarded? Thailand is a country of cap doffers and 80% of that population is lacking in education, position, assets and income. Even modest rank and position in government in Thailand commands respect. What is his position, government salary grade? How highly regarded? A highly regarded bureaucrat? That’s an oxymoron.

Above middle class? – doubtful. Above middle class is upper class, I believe. The upper class folks I know ALL have lots of expensive furniture.

**’ Your plans did not seem to have worked out that well. maybe being less paranoid would have been better for you also’

--on the contrary, I wasn’t paranoid enough before the fact. Pity the marriage lasted so long. If they’re no good you want to get rid of them ASAP.

**You have a serious attitude problem, no wonder your relationships failed. How many more do you need until you will learn your lesson?

But what do I care?

actually have a good attitude in spite of being conned by a trollop who’ll flog her pussy to the highest bidder after she's married you, without a shred of guilt or remorse, condoned and supported by her equally ambitious mother and father. When you get shivved like that you tend to look out a bit more. Money is harder to acquire than girls, much more useful and often easier to get rid of than said girls. I have more of a position than an attitude. Attitude implies beliefs, feelings, values and dispositions. position is more dispassionate, logical, less swayed by feelings. Thailand is a ‘relationship supermarket”. Nice, isn’t it? My current mode is ‘variety’ which might even lead to better quality.

“How many more relationships do I need”? None. Your attempt at condescension fails as miserably as your muddle-headed logic, as usual. after my first and last Thai marriage, which I got out of cheaply by the way, most of which I thoroughly enjoyed I did indeed learn my lesson, for a moderate fee. The lesson served to protect the serious assets the greedy bitch missed by jumping too quickly. Ha. And all future greedy whores. I thank the gods I learned before losing something really serious, happy to be free again and wise enough from the experience to avoid forever more ambitious little gold-diggers flying under false colours with their pretense to real feelings. As Zane May says so frequently, defend your baht. There wouldn’t so great a need to defend it so strongly if their need to acquire it by deception wasn’t quite so intense, would there? My policy now is to ask if they can lend me a hundred thousand or so before they get it in first. I repeat this frequently to instill into them I will be constantly looking to them for additional finances while I continue to foot day-to-day bills. This approach keeps their ambition burning brightly and their target on someone other than me. Seems to work very well and defuses what can become tedious irritation. I worked pretty damned hard to get the money I have and all this serves to give it a higher value still. They not only want it for free but without strings. “Cough it up and fuck off (and be quick about it)” might go nicely as a motto on their armorial bearings - if any of them knew what they were, or had them, which they don’t.

‘Whatever happened to romance’ someone asked when I wrote about my friend up north with his 3000 a month girly offer. Ask Steffi’s girlfriend who coolly ignores her fiancees dilemma and lets him swim with the sharks. I’m sure he feels as lonely as I did in his time of need.

‘But what do I care’

Oh dear, your feelings are showing. a certain cynical note, no?. And childishness. It’s either a non sequitur or plain rudeness since you took the trouble to put finger to keyboard. Grow up, examine the facts more carefully, assess the probabilities more intelligently and improve your flawed logic.

 

**FOZW wrote in a previous post “let me ask you, how long have you been living in thailand, and how well do you speak thai?

or is it just the bad experience you had”?

----Going to Thailand off and on since late ‘70’s, lived there 3.5 yrs since ’97, understand enough Thai to get the jist of it, approaching intermediate spoken. And believe me, Khun FOZW, this was not an ultra bad experience by any means. I had a great time 75% of it, 30% enjoyed most of it, 15% could have done without it. When a woman you want to keep moves on to a much, much richer, younger man it dents your pride a bit for a while but we’re OK now and the current substitute beats her hands down in too many ways. The rich prick she stings as we speak has NO idea of her ‘hit and run’ plan with him (he’s been going to Thailand for 25 years) and I am consoled by the knowledge I wasn’t the only fool to be duped by her charm. in reality, he did he a favor.

 

**The question is not if I like the look of her, the question is, does she want to be the paid consort of me?

---- being experienced in Thailand as you are I must assume you have slaked your lust on paid whores. Did you ask those girls the same question even though they appeared to be willing. given a chance many would prefer to do something else but they're trapped in the machine. many of these girls wouldn't be anybody's paid consort if they had another way of making decent money. But we must not assume that young girl was at all unwilling. Who knows, maybe she was disappointed at the missed opportunity that he didn’t take her out of her hovel and open her mind (and body) to a whole new world of glorious sanuking. But he spared her so she continues her life of deprivation with the father who attempted to capitalise on her youth and beauty. We’ve heard here of the many village girls who yearn to find a farang mate, lift them out of poverty and avoid Thai men at all costs. He’s 65 now and if she stayed with him he’d pass on to sanuker's heaven in a while then she’d be free, better educated, still young and likely very much richer because she would have made him happy. he would have repaid her favors in kind because he’s considerate and generous. Just speculating

on a final note, have you had any other relations in addition to the one you're in right now? what happened to the others? they weren't failures i hope.

[jingjoh]

quote:

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Originally posted by flyonzewall:

i have courted my common law wife several months before anything happened. before it happened it was clear that we will be together for life (hopefully).

i do not regret that. i think personally that sex is the smallest part for a working relationship, even that overestimating sex could cloud the brain.

she had no experience whatsoever, so, obviously it took a while for that to be enjoyable for both of us.

so far we live together since 7 and a half years, still happy.

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Does this answer my question?? hardly, you slept with her before marrying her, before locking yourself into a position which is hard to remove yourself from, at least emotionally. Sex you will find is more than a small part of a working relationship, and is variable, some women I have known have put high emphasis on their sex life, others have not. I feel what becomes the smallest part over time is the physical appearance to a certain degree, but the sex and companionship must improve and be sustainable.

As for the last 20? posts from farangbaa, yourself, and everyone else arguing, he has a decent handle to the situation, and its obvious he has tried to post without emotion, the comment about getting rid of your life insurance was a bit of sarcasm right? at least thats how I read it.

If I was in Steffs position I would welcome these hard emmotionless posts, it would give me much more information and opinion to work from. Patronising Steff with good luck posts etc is a total waste of time, he asked the question and he must be prepared for the replies.

[Guest]

faranbaa,

Most of my friends with IT jobs got them after the crash.

two story, 3 bedroom house, not much furniture may be an indicator, but that's all. from then on it is speculation.

not everybody needs to flaunt their wealth. most do, but not everybody. so, don't speculate based on spending habits.

great to see that you quote zane may, a guy who has not the slightest clue about thailand coz he has been here only one or two a bit extended sexholidays, does not speak even a minimum of the language, but writes very good pornography. yeah, know your heros.

going on and off cince the late seventies, living here since '97 and you understand enough thai to get the jinx of it, approaching intermediate spoken. wow, impressive! wonder what you did all these years (excuse my sarcasm here).

are you maybe one of these guys who believe that a bargirls in thailand simply love men double her age? is it maybe that one of the reasons your relationships failed is that she does not really enjoy being married with a guy older than her father. whatever, speculation.

to answer your final note: no, no previous relationships, no damage, no reason to turn cynic. but that maybe comes also from the fact that other reasons than sex brought me to asia.