playtheblues Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 ...sorry, couldn't resist ironising over your "reading the wrong books" thing. Mann lets his Goethe make some very insightful remarks about the German people as they tended to manifest themselves in their raw nationalistic outrage. I quoted this in reponse to your commentary to American activities in Iraq as the worst terrorism in history. Not even the most boring of rainy seasons can make me try to structure and respond to your endless stream of words, except again to say how typically Peace movement of the 80ies they sound. And I insist that Adenauer was a very good representative for a "Rehinländer" in its broad, internationally and West oriented sense. Of course Thomas Mann could not have become a good Bundeskanzler, a writer is a writer, a politician is a politician. The Grass issue has nothing to do with the relevance of his words about how Germans asked for and got their Santa Claus. Usw. I am not American as you easily can see from my uptight and clumsy English, typical for non-native users of the language, and of course not German. Be grateful for your cultural heritage, I envy you in this regard. We don't seem to share any common denominator for a meaningful discussion - except possibly that I am also staunchly anti-Bush, and quite worried about tendencies within the Administration and the Republicans, obviously being, as Paul Krugman wrote yesterday in IHT, dangerously paranoid. So let's finish with Mann's words in Goethe's mouth to the German people: "Sie mögen mich nicht - recht so, ich mag sie auch nicht, so sind wir quitt" (not necessary to translate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Wow... Ok, I'd better clarify what I meant when I said I hate Starbucks. What I meant it that I hate what Starbucks represents. Homogenization on a massive scale with the SOLE PURPOSE being PROFIT. While I appreciate and admire much of American culture, it really pisses me off that the tentacles of the American Hyper-Capitalist/Consumerist ethos now have a firm grip on the rest of the world. America pushes a paradigm of endlessly increasing consumption/production that cannot last. As part of this process it bombards us all with messages telling us that our only purpose is to consume. In doing so they are pushing the planet closer and closer to self destruction. America's ethos is aimed at achieving maximum concentration of wealth in the hands of as few people as necessary, leaving the US with an obesity problem that poses a far greater threat to the population than any terrorist attacks whilst milions starve elsewhere. Do I have to take back my "Fuck America" statement? Ever since the end of WWII the US has been steamrolling down a path towards Imperial world domination. Overthrowing democratically elected governments and replacing them with murderous right wing military juntas, training death squads, invading countries under false pretences, assasinating foreign leaders, eliminating diversity and aggrevating poverty. In all this time Americans have been unable to figure out how to stop it and I don't know why this is any more than I know how to stop it. Perhaps it's because they keep the right number of people reasonably well off with the American dream/Carrot of wealth dangling before them so they don't step out of line...I dunno. In the past week I heard a news anchor suggest that teachers be armed in response to that incident in the school where the guy lined up 11 little girls and shot them in the head; I heard another news pundit on US TV state that poor people who buy cut price heating oil from Venezeula are TRAITORS and suggest that Chavez be taken out. I've also watched in amazement as the majority of Americans have done absolutely nothing while their president granted himself retroactive immunity from prosecution and had a bill passed that flys in the face of their own constitution. I'm sorry, but where is this all going? 1-2 million dead in Vietnam, approaching a million dead in Iraq (800,000 combined over the past 15 years or so). And all this orchestrated and executed by the nation whose people enjoy the greatest freedom, access to education, healthcare, nutrition and so on... people who should be able to do something to stop it??? Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Sorry for my poor mathematics 650,000 + 250,000 = 900,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Oh, and obviously my "Fuck America" comment was aimed at the US Administration/Elite rather than at American people at large. Like I said, I've gotten along really well with most Americans I've met... but even the best educated of them seem to have a massive blind spot when it comes to the reality of the effects of US foreign policy. Didn't mean to offend anyone, it was merely an expression of my frustration with the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 <> Did you post this from a Student Union Campus internet station by any chance?!!!!! :smirk: What difference would it make if I did and why would you make this assumption? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidel Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Oh, and I'd just like to add. Anyone who wants to kick my ass can do so in Gulliver's on Oct. 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Oh, and I'd just like to add. Anyone who wants to kick my ass can do so in Gulliver's on Oct. 20th. I'll be there on the 20th with the local staff from Starbucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 This discussion has already been going on to long, but just to clear up confusion: It is almost a cultural paradigm that Goethe considered himself a "Rheinländer" even though he was born in Frankfurt. He often talked about the area around the Rhein (culturally not limited to Bundesland Rheinland-Pfalz, of course) as his spiritual homeland, and in contrast to nationalistic Prussia. Konrad Adenauer was even physically born more or less on the banks of the river Rhine in Bad Honnef. near Bonn. Surprising that a native German does not understand the widely accepted cultural context of the notion "Rheinländer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thalenoi, "Uh, didn't you Americans stop eating French cheese and wine when the hypocrite Jacques Chirac expressed his disagreement with his pal Georgy when he went to war against Sadam." Not all us Americans. But it was good that this drove down the price of French table wines for a while after. And 'freedom fries' was just too much a mouthful to say dammit. And being part French I wasn't allowed by my mother to run about saying, "Fuck the French!" Even "Damn those Frog bastards!" brought a glare and a swat. "Please remember all of Europe (That excludes England?) was against this war, even small Belgium protested. But no, Almighty America knows it better and knows democracy is good for all." And please you (and all) remember that not all Americans wanted this war or this government either. And more and more are seeing what the truth is over these past few years and do not like one bit what they are seeing. But, like OH and others have said, "What would you have us do?" You vote against them and try to get your representatives to vote against them as well. Maybe a sit-in would work? Nah, been done, and besides you can't even sit-in anywhere near where you want to any more. Besides, it's so damned expensive in the states now one hardly can make ends meet, and the big boss sure ain't going to let you go to a peace rally instead of going to work now. Wouldn't do to miss work and get fired and not be able to pay the mortgage. "As others said, we are not against American people, only your idiotic dangerous crazy leaders." I appreciate that. We have our nasty braindead jerks, as most others do. There are a lot of ignorant people in the states, but not as many as watching the Jerry Springer show would lead you to believe, really. "Now if you watch Sopranos, all the fuck this and fuck that, is that normal american talk? I am affraid so, the average John's basic three words?" Seems to be so. In certain circles and among the guys, yeah. And the ladies aren't that much better either at times. Some of the women have worse language than the guys, especially the younger ones. If I get flipped off by one more fat buffalo bitch while driving I might have to resort to violence one day. :smirk: "I spent enough time working in the USA to have respect for most people there." Thanks Thalenoi. That is mostly my point. It's not so much the American people, we are all mostly the same the world over, good and bad. It's the government and its policies, which many Americans hate, especially I feel we that live overseas and travel a lot overseas. We are the ones that sometimes become the target for others who hate the damn government, and usually we are the ones who dislike what this government does (and past administrations as well) to the world at large. We see what is the result in other places outside the states from these policies, and we see first-hand the resentment of this by others we meet from other lands. I wish it was mandatory for all Americans to travel the world for a couple years and meet other people. I think it would have a profound affect on the way some Americans think. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 "...I am not American as you easily can see from my uptight and clumsy English, typical for non-native users of the language..." Then what is my excuse? I usually blame the San Francisco Public school system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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