those wicked americans

[Guest lazyphil]

bosnia, tried to help MUSLIMS against CHRISTIAN aggression. no oil in the balkans either.

[foreigner]

the dead browns in iraq are NEVER included in american news.

 

[color:red]browns do not count to americans![/color]

if browns counted the dead civilians would be discussed

the dead children from the Wolfawitz embargo would be discussed.

wolfie put into writing, his adopted embargo plan to murder brown children, brown women & brown men

 

outside the irish, what 'white' cultures were subjected to UK colonialism?

[Guest lazyphil]

you wont make me feel ashamed of the british empire, i'm rather proud of it. i dont whine about the romans, normans, vikings, saxons who invaded ancient britain, in fact all that fucking they did with the women changed our bloodline into the colonisers were eventually became.!!!

[Guest lazyphil]

<

 

dunno but we invented concerntration camps with white dutch settlers in south africa ....the empire was colourblind in its quest for wealth and land!

[Steve]

The reasons were supposed to be WMDs that proved false and it was later changed to 'liberating the folks from Saddam'. Wrong war. Can't say 'oops', no WMDs, we'll change the reasons. At the very least insulting, at the very worse impeachment. However, its not a foregone fact that Bush went in for the oil. Its a possibility but lets not state facts where they are not supported. Iraq has oil, the U.S. is there, the oil could be a byproduct or a plus if you will of being there but may not have been the real reason. Same for Israel. If the U.S. wanted to get countries that Israel has to worry about, we'd have invaded Syria and Iran. Iraq was far lower on the totem pole of Israel's concern.

 

As for as honesty, you find it from any government. Even the 'good' ones. Its just not what they do.

 

How come the USSR (present day Russia) and China escapes foreigner's anger? North Korea as well. Some of those that hold America to a higher standard and gives a pass to non western atrocities sometimes are doing the same thing that they accuse the U.S. of and that is seeing non western (code word for non white) peoples as less. The Mugabes and Jungs of the world get a pass by some because..well..they aren't as enlightened as 'us'. Its a similar pity I got when I got bussed. Well meaning liberal teachers telling me its okay if I didn't get the trigonometry question while explaining it full to my suburban neighbor. I had lower expectations. Some of us from neighborhood fell into that trap. I and my parents wouldn't allow that to happen. The same happens to nations. We give Zimbabwe, Arabs, North Koreans a lower expectation to act civil and do the right thing.

 

France has funded rogue nations with weapons, technology, etc. for the almight franc/euro. USSR/Russia as well. Every country that produces a jet fighters, assault weapons (France, England Germnay, Russia) as well as a whole cadre of weaponry has tried to sell them to rogue nations. Not on the scale of the U.S. but they all get a pass on this forum. Everyone is culpable and when those nations had their time to be the dominant world power they did similar or worse. Present day Africa is a partially a byproduct of European colonialism. Africans themselves have to take the onus of blame but so does europe. The only reason why European nations don't have their colonies is because they were too weak financially and militarily after WW2 to hold on to it. India, IndoChina, Algiers, the list goes on and on, if they were successful they'd be colonies as I write now. It wasn't because they were struck with enlightenment and altruism. its all bullshit. America may lead the pack because of its place but our leaders collectively all share in the same hypocracy and bullshit. If America was so evil why do the EU continue to deal with us? Realpolitik. The european masses dont' like us but your leaders do 'business' with the U.S. for a host of reasons. They have far more in common than they are different. I don't care how anti American the part that is elected, once they get in there they get in bed with us on a lot of levels. They all work together.

 

I especially like the post about bringing in those who have only sent a few hundred troops. The hypocracy. So the scale determines the guilt?

 

Question. Do you all really think the various European nations actually want America to leave the middle east region totally? I am totally and unequivocally convinced if we said we're leaving the region in all aspects the White House phone will be ringing off the hook with pleas to stay. What they don't like is the 'manner' the U.S. is there.

 

That oil we are said to be stealing. Is all of it going to the U.S. or are some of you all going to be using it to refuel your cars?

[sayjann]

'The Mugabes and Jungs of the world'

 

Mugabe is one of the worst examples of power.

but no-one will do anything about him because there is nothing worth fighting for in his Country,Governments don't give a toss about his genocide.

he is a case for black ops IMO........

[chuckwoww]

The reasons were supposed to be WMDs that proved false and it was later changed to 'liberating the folks from Saddam'. Wrong war. Can't say 'oops', no WMDs, we'll change the reasons. At the very least insulting, at the very worse impeachment. However, its not a foregone fact that Bush went in for the oil. Its a possibility but lets not state facts where they are not supported. Iraq has oil, the U.S. is there, the oil could be a byproduct or a plus if you will of being there but may not have been the real reason. Same for Israel. If the U.S. wanted to get countries that Israel has to worry about, we'd have invaded Syria and Iran. Iraq was far lower on the totem pole of Israel's concern.

 

As for as honesty, you find it from any government. Even the 'good' ones. Its just not what they do.

 

How come the USSR (present day Russia) and China escapes foreigner's anger? North Korea as well. Some of those that hold America to a higher standard and gives a pass to non western atrocities sometimes are doing the same thing that they accuse the U.S. of and that is seeing non western (code word for non white) peoples as less. The Mugabes and Jungs of the world get a pass by some because..well..they aren't as enlightened as 'us'. Its a similar pity I got when I got bussed. Well meaning liberal teachers telling me its okay if I didn't get the trigonometry question while explaining it full to my suburban neighbor. I had lower expectations. Some of us from neighborhood fell into that trap. I and my parents wouldn't allow that to happen. The same happens to nations. We give Zimbabwe, Arabs, North Koreans a lower expectation to act civil and do the right thing.

 

France has funded rogue nations with weapons, technology, etc. for the almight franc/euro. USSR/Russia as well. Every country that produces a jet fighters, assault weapons (France, England Germnay, Russia) as well as a whole cadre of weaponry has tried to sell them to rogue nations. Not on the scale of the U.S. but they all get a pass on this forum. Everyone is culpable and when those nations had their time to be the dominant world power they did similar or worse. Present day Africa is a partially a byproduct of European colonialism. Africans themselves have to take the onus of blame but so does europe. The only reason why European nations don't have their colonies is because they were too weak financially and militarily after WW2 to hold on to it. India, IndoChina, Algiers, the list goes on and on, if they were successful they'd be colonies as I write now. It wasn't because they were struck with enlightenment and altruism. its all bullshit. America may lead the pack because of its place but our leaders collectively all share in the same hypocracy and bullshit. If America was so evil why do the EU continue to deal with us? Realpolitik. The european masses dont' like us but your leaders do 'business' with the U.S. for a host of reasons. They have far more in common than they are different. I don't care how anti American the part that is elected, once they get in there they get in bed with us on a lot of levels. They all work together.

 

I especially like the post about bringing in those who have only sent a few hundred troops. The hypocracy. So the scale determines the guilt?

 

Question. Do you all really think the various European nations actually want America to leave the middle east region totally? I am totally and unequivocally convinced if we said we're leaving the region in all aspects the White House phone will be ringing off the hook with pleas to stay. What they don't like is the 'manner' the U.S. is there.

 

That oil we are said to be stealing. Is all of it going to the U.S. or are some of you all going to be using it to refuel your cars?

 

 

I don't know CS. I like discussing this with you but I wish you'd keep to one subject. I can't deal with all that stuff. The WMD business has been discussed to death. For me it was just a pretext to depose Saddam, grab the oil and build some military bases.

 

"Same for Israel. If the U.S. wanted to get countries that Israel has to worry about, we'd have invaded Syria and Iran."

 

I think the plan was to spread the war to Syria and Iran. I think it still is in some quarters. Israel has given up on ever being an integrated part of the region.

 

I know governments are dishonest. I'm talking about the superpower government. The one that has the power to start WW3. Not the government of Zimbabwe. The one that can get us all incinerated.

 

The point about mentioning Azerbaijan and Eritrea was to demonstrate the kind of bribery and arm twisting that went into building the so-called 'coalition of the willing'. It was you that wondered why other governments joined in. Some like Britain and Australia were willing, at least their leaders were, the smaller countries got bribed mostly.

 

France, WW2, Indochina...bussing...trigonometry...it's all too much...basically I guess you're trying to cite historical precedents to justify current American behaviour. Well OK if it makes you feel good but really what we're talking about here is current US foreign policy. All this intervention is based on paranoia fueled by the military industrial complex to keep the money flowing in. If the US really wanted to improve the quality of life in other countries they could find better ways to spend the money. I'm starting to think that America needs a war every few years to keep the economy going and test new weapons. Any war will do. Trouble is they're starting to run out of easy targets. It's no accident that Russia and China have been conducting joint exercises in the Urals. I guess we have a new arms race to look forward to because Bush bribed the Polish government into installing some stupid missile shield which nobody wants or needs (except of course the people who get the contract to make the bloody thing). People complain about the billions of dollars it costs to keep the war going. They say it's a waste of money. Wrong. It's fuelling the economy. Like a 'contractor' from Iraq said to me one night in Soi Cowboy....'God bless the war, it's paying for my house.' It was paying for some pussy too that his wife didn't know about.

 

"Question. Do you all really think the various European nations actually want America to leave the middle east region totally?"

 

That's the kind of simplistic question that has no answer. Which European nations?...the governments or the people? Most of the people I know would be delighted if the US army went back to being a purely defensive force. There have been polls. Most people in Europe think the US is much more dangerous than Russia or Syria or Iran and North Korea and all the other bogey men.

 

As for the oil it would be nice to see it back at $15 a barrel before Bush invaded Iraq. Iraqi oil would have been even cheaper than that if the Kuwaitis hadn't been so greedy.

 

Sorry if I didn't cover all your points.

[Dexi]

Many of us hate Bush and the Neocons,not ordinary Americans,there is a big difference there...IMO the US never abandoned its war footing at the end of WW2 it has maintained a huge military and those guys need something to do now and again- remember Granada , Panama ...nice little wars where there was no chance of being bogged down .IMO the Anglo/US leaders are still working on the WW2 principles where defeated nations were forced into the democratic-Western friendly political system eg.Post war Germany .Italy,Japan etc.all now US friendly ( subservient ) nations...the US also stole large areas of land in these countries to use as military bases...same as in the " Green Zone in Baghdad ) where the US has effectively stolen a large area of central Baghdad...

[chuckwoww]

Something happened after or during WW2. America seemed to get a taste for war. Eisenhower warned about it. I think it's mainly to do with the vast profits made in the arms industry.

[Guest lazyphil]

that lust started around 1776!!