those wicked americans

[chuckwoww]

I think we do care ..it is not knowing how to get them to help themselves...that is a big problem

 

You really think the US went into Iraq to help the Iraqi people? The idea was to get rid of Saddam, remove the threat to Israel and control the oil. You only have to look at the way they treated prisoners at Abu Ghraib to see what the average American soldier thinks about Iraqis.

 

Maybe some naive Americans thought they were helping the Iraqi people but most just wanted to kick Arab ass. I think it turned out even worse than the ones who organized this fiasco anticipated. The best way to help them would be to stop meddling with their lives but something tells me the US will be 'helping' for a long time.

 

Did Blair think he was helping Iraq? Seems to me he was helping BP. I don't know how Australia got involved in helping Iraq. Maybe Howard just had to show solidarity with Bush in case Oz ever needs help repelling Indonesians.

[chuck6660]

Let me throw by 100 won, baht or whatever into this "challenged" discussion.

As OH stated earlier, Saddam held Iraq together by imposing the fear of death on anyone who opposed him, he had complete control of Iraq.

 

When the US went in and deposed Saddam, they naively opened a "Pandora's box." Now you have a multi-dimensional war: 1- Al-Quadia and foreign fighters attacking the US forces because the US is there, 2- Sunnis, Shites, and Kurds fighting each other for control of Iraq, 3- Iran fighting a "black" war against the US over influence in the Middle East.

 

Iraq with Saddam doesn't look so bad now, does it?

[chuckwoww]

Pretty good summary I think. I'm not sure how naive some of Bushes advisors were but that's another topic. Now the drums are beating on Iran.

[Torneyboy]

Yes..we are a long and loyal allies ..

[chuckwoww]

You have no choice mate. The Asian hordes are coming.

[Fidel]

Why do I get the feeling that the OP's motive was not to mourn the deaths of hundreds of innocent Iraqis in US Occupied Iraq, but more to illustrate how the Iraqis themselves, and not the Americans, are to blame for the war in Iraq?

 

USA! USA! WHOOP, WHOOP! Go SURGE 2007! Go BUSH! Kill the RAGHEADS!

[exit2dos]

I think we do care ..it is not knowing how to get them to help themselves...that is a big problem

 

You really think the US went into Iraq to help the Iraqi people? The idea was to get rid of Saddam' date=' remove the threat to Israel and control the oil. You only have to look at the way they treated prisoners at Abu Ghraib to see what the average American soldier thinks about Iraqis.

 

Maybe some naive Americans thought they were helping the Iraqi people but most just wanted to kick Arab ass. I think it turned out even worse than the ones who organized this fiasco anticipated. The best way to help them would be to stop meddling with their lives but something tells me the US will be 'helping' for a long time.

 

Did Blair think he was helping Iraq? Seems to me he was helping BP. I don't know how Australia got involved in helping Iraq. Maybe Howard just had to show solidarity with Bush in case Oz ever needs help repelling Indonesians.[/quote']

 

Blair stood up in US Congress to eloquently lie and persuade naive Americans, and the world, to support the war.

 

Howard and Blair are complicit with Bush and all three should be charged with war crimes. British and Australian war supporters made it more difficult for American anti war activists to change American foreign policy.

 

France, Germany and Russia were the only ones to have the balls not to cave in to Bush. A lot of Americans peace groups wish more countries had stood up or shut up.

 

Howard even critized Democratic presidential candidate Obama for his anti war outlook. That remark came out at a time when the Democrats were trying to retake Congress, which they did with the slimmest of margins. Howard's remarks wasn't helpful.

 

We haven't heard much from Downing Street, either. If the British leave, it will humiliate Bush. If the British stand up to stop the war, maybe the naive Americans will too.

 

Saying only naive Americans are to blame is hypocritical. There's a long list of countries that sent troops.

[Old Hippie]

Pretty good summary I think. I'm not sure how naive some of Bushes advisors were but that's another topic. Now the drums are beating on Iran.

 

 

The fucked up thing is, almost all his advisers and his dad told him not to do it...

[Paillote]

Most of the insurgents are quite young, Iraqi kids really, doing what English kids would do if England was invaded. Not sure why you can't see that.

 

Really? Don't know what you are trying to achieve with outrageous statemensts like that. It fits really nice in your theories and blame games, but this would never happen in England and not many other places either. It really is unprecedented.

 

Your theories of everything is to blame on the coalition, and nothing can be blamed on the Iraqis makes your world very simple, but it is just not as easy as that. You would never see English kids blow themselves up along with 100's of their own countrymen. People are people, but behaviour is definitly different form place to place. Drawing a parallel like what you did is shameful.

 

It is really frightening how far many people are going in understanding and excusing terrorism. There are always reasons for terrorism, some better than others, but never excuses for it. And please dont mix terrorism and resistance. Some here fails to see the difference despite how huge it is.

 

Paillote

 

[Fidel]

Hey OH. Just met a Yank over here in Islamabad who's into aircraft maintenance. He's funny as hell. He was trying to convince me and my mates (including a few Pakis and women) to come over to his place, with the words: "Come on, I've got pork and dirty movies".