CTO Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Singapore a democracy? You really don't have a clue do you? World's most successful benign dictatorship but not a democracy! Try living there. Agree with you on Thailand cop except I posted that it was going to happen here on this board not some obscure Pattaya board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Singapore a democracy? You really don't have a clue do you? World's most successful benign dictatorship but not a democracy! Try living there. Well, since I am not a native speaker and it might well be my fault, before calling you an idiot I will try to rephrase... Those people, along witht the Thais, were convinced (and so proud of that) Thailand was the only true democracy amongst all the other NON-democratic countries in Thailand's geo-political region of reference, ranging from Myanmar (the most non-democratic one) to Singapore (the least non-democratic one). As for my thoughts on democratic countries, the ONLY mature democratic country outside of the West is Japan. Agree with you on Thailand cop except I posted that it was going to happen here on this board not some obscure Pattaya board. It's not obscure, it's just a small board (the Yellow Board) to which I feel bound for sentimental reasons: it reminds me of my earlier years in Pattaya... Anyway, I have also been writing at lenght about that on Thaivisa (my main handler there was BAF, now banned) but I didn't want to mention and "advertise" that PC cesspool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 World's most successful benign dictatorship but not a democracy! CTO, I agree with you re living in Sillypore, but I look at their incredible infrastructure and then I come back to BKK and see a city where 21st century skyscrapers sit alongside open sewers and 'footpaths' that are a joke - even the footpaths in Vientiane were better, and that is the poorest city I've ever visited. Instead of ruthlessly mining their countries wealth to line their own pockets, successive generations of Singaporeans have contributed to their country and they have something they can be proud of. I didnt see a single abandoned building site in the Singapore CBD - stand on the BTS station at Asok and look around you .... If thats a benign dictatorship, we could use some of it in Oz, and it could only be an improvement in Thailand. We can put all those littering fines toward sensors that ensure that you dont exceed 60 km/h in built-up areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadfly Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I also think the risk of a coup is high, but I never make predictions here. It is, however, different this time in a few respects. First, Thais who were relativley forthcoming about the political difficulties before the last coup are less so now. They really don't want to discuss the topic in front of me. I think much a matter of face. Second, when politics in general are discussed, I am hearing more comments about democracy is an over-rated Western construct, at least from the upper class types I know. Last time the story-line was that a coup was needed to return to democracy. A short turn blip. Now, I think it is evident that it doesn't work that way. You can see some of this in the press, including an amazingly anti-US/xenophobic article almost one week ago in the Bangkok Post (which I now whish I had saved). Third, those who want a coup to oust the current regime must realize that if they do so, it could easily turn violent. Eveyone important now realizes that a short-term coup, followed by elections, is probably going to get us back to where we are now. It won't work. So what do you do? Simply not have a coup altogether? Or do you go to the other extreme? And if there is a coup, it will quickly become evident that some are trying to push it to the other extreme (no real plans to return to democracy for several years). That could lead to real violence. There is enough pro-democracy sentiment in this country for things to take a nasty turn. I honsestly don't know how all of this will turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Comparing Thailand to Singapore is rather senseless. One is an island-city, the other a country as large as France. The Lee family has run Singapore ever since independence. If only one family ran Bangkok, I'm sure it would be in much better shape than it is. Wealthy Chinese-Thai families do run Bangkok. However, they try to get as much as they can for as little as they can, since they are competing with each other. Bangkok in the 1970s was still a beautiful city - with clean air, tree-lined streets, clean klongs with fish in them and no traffic jams. Since then it has been turned into Judge Dredd's megacity. There has been no planning and green space is considered a waste of money. Bangkok is spreading into Nonthaburi and Pathumthani provinces carrying all of its problems with it. It is simply greed gone wild, with no one to control it. The 1997 crash in a way was a good thing. It brought the frantic building efforts to a screeching halt and actually made traffic bearable for a few years. It even brought in a period of reasonably responsible democratic governments. Then Mr T got in and greed resumed its reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 [color:purple]As for my thoughts on democratic countries, the ONLY mature democratic country outside of the West is Japan.[/color] Yes, sure, Italy is a model of "mature democracy" where someone can pass a law to escape being put to trial. Mind you, Belgium or the USA are "model democracies" for the same kind of reasons. And Japan is a mature democracy where corruption is not as rampant as in Thailand and where the zaibatsus do not dictate politics [color:red]on Thaivisa (my main handler there was BAF, now banned)[/color] Not suprising... FIGJAM: You do live in wonderland don't you? There is a difference between being critical and trying to drive a point home: You never stop bitching about Thailand. This country is neither hell (like you describe it) or heaven (like some of use see it). Stop giving lessons about Thai "democracy"... There are quite a few board members who, given their nationalities, do not have lessons to give to Thailand. (Italians, Belgians, Americans etc...) You speak about geopolitics, is it "geopolitics" from a pattaya punter point of view? Thailand is not a full "mature" (whatever it means for you) democracy? Sure, just look at the neighbouring states, they are all grown up democracies... Last point: You are pissing quite a few board memers by always putting people who disagree with you about any subjects into categories: You think Thailand has some positive points = You live in lala land... Reminds me the: If you are not with me then you are against me. FIGJAM, I do feel sorry for you to see the world and Thailand in such a black and white way... By the way, I have lived and sometimes worked in a few of those many places where you can say they are shitholes and hell on hearth... Thailand is not among these despite all the negative aspects of this country. Are you paid by a neighbouring government to attract the punters there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samak Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 As for my thoughts on democratic countries, the ONLY mature democratic country outside of the West is Japan. ok then! let's bring democracy to all those underdevelopped immature countries in Asia..like GWB brought mercifully democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Let's see, US style democracy: 1) The winner of the presidential election in 2000 was the guy who got the SECOND MOST votes. 2) Hillary Clinton was picked by the Dem Party in Noo Yawk to run for the Senate. No primary, no nothing. Just "this is your candidate". 3) Congressmen get to increase their own salary and bennies whenever they want. Cool! 4) Congress redistricts the states after a census, with the party in power making sure the districts will elect members of that party. Any more examples??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I would also call Malaysia a far more successful democracy than Singapore. Agree with Flash - it's pretty easy to rule a city state - however in the early 70's Singapore was a bigger shithole than Bangkok today - open sewers - the river which is now a tourist attraction - you couldn't walk within 50 metres the smell was so bad. Yet as Flash said Bangkok was still called the Venice of the East. Interesting to see how powerful Chinese family influence ran so differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 I would be curious to hear explanations as to why Singapore, HK,evolved so differently from Thailand? (I leave Taiwan apart) Could it be due to a different Chinese social emigration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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