Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

[Bangkoktraveler]

Well' date=' let's not get side-tracked by this stuff. Let's talk about Barry's REAL reason he wants to legalize wetbacks. (Like the reason isn't obvious to everybody.)

 

HH

 

[/quote']

 

Hey HH, do you think you could manage to come up with a single post with making some racist comment (yes, the term "wetback" is racist) or using some sort of pejorative comment? You are smarter than that, but you come across as a moron.

 

It is just easier to debase/harm people after you have dehumanized them, for example by using derogatory terms and ethnic slurs. It lessens the guilt...

 

 

HH does even close to rogie rogueyam who accused everybody of being a [[color:red]LIAR, LEFTIST, COMMUNIST RETARD. [/color]

 

[rchapstick]

Having once met HH, he seemed like a bright guy. So it is kinda weird that in any political discussion about Obama, his persona is more like Archie Bunker's idiot brother.

[Old Hippie]

Hmmm...first off, I know HH. He is NOT a racist. The term "Wetback" comes from the Mexican slang "Mojado" meaning wet. Mexicans use this term quite often with each other. For example "...I am wet, I have no papers..." It is/was their way of defining who is who. The second we use it, we are racist (in certain circles anyway.) This whole issue pisses me off, simply because as a white person, you cannot have an opinion about it, unless it is 100% pro illegal, without someone calling you a racist.

[rchapstick]

Having met HH, I too am surprised by his vitriolic rhetoric.

 

That said, I would disagree about your conclusion that the term "wetback" is not racist, or at a minimum a pejorative term. Regardless of the origin of the word, to be called a "wetback", regardless of your immigration status, is meant to demean and dehumanize the person being referred to (usually but not always someone of Mexican descent). Being called a wetback is to be insulted. Don't believe me? Go hang out at your local home depot and start calling some of the day laborers wetbacks. I'd give you 15 minutes before you had the shit beat out of you.

 

And let's be serious. HH is not using the term "wetback" in a friendly way, any more than his constant references to Obama as a "fuckstick" are meant in humor or jest.

 

Sadly, HH seems incapable of making coherent arguments here without insulting broad swaths of the populations. His arguements are not without merit, but they lose credibility by his constant use of slurs and insults. It is sad, because he is at his core smarter and better than that.

[Steve]

... WW2 got us out of the depression for example' date=' it wasn't FDR's new deal. The war put people to work not the new deal. We were able to force price controls because of the war effort that helped us get out of the depression as well. Profits were limited because of it, people's dollar meant something. The war also employed many of the poor, especially minorities (blacks, latinos) who weren't part of the economy prior were working in factory jobs building war materials that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to work in prior. In turn they bought houses, etc.

 

... [/quote']

 

The GDP recovered during the new deal. Many economists say the new deal spending was too small and with WWII all government spending restraints were removed!

 

If one defines economic health entirely by the gross domestic product, the U.S. had gotten back on track by 1934, and made a full recovery by 1936, but as Roosevelt said, one third of the nation was ill fed, ill-housed and ill-clothed. See Chart 3. GNP was 34% higher in 1936 than 1932, and 58% higher in 1940 on the eve of war. The economy grew 58% from 1932 to 1940 in 8 years of peacetime, and then grew 56% from 1940 to 1945 in 5 years of wartime. However, the unemployment rate never went below 9% before the draft.

 

Link

 

The other part was the GI bill and benefits after the war. VA loans helped fuel the post-war housing boom and the educational benefits helped expand the middle class.

 

A few points. The first two taken from the same link:

 

1) There is still debate amongst economist, historians, and economic historians as to the effect of the New Deal in America's economic recovery. One survey showed that 49% of economists felt that the New Deal lengthened and deepened the depression [22], while another showed that only 5% of professional historians and 27% of professional economists felt the same way

 

2) ...with sustained improvement until 1937, when the Recession of 1937 brought back 1934 levels of unemployment

 

Roosevelt knew we'd be going into the war by the mid to late 30s and it was a matter of when not if. We revamped war production in the mid to late 30s in anticipation of it.

 

Look at American war production from '38 to the time we entered the war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

 

The country had good numbers in some stats but its like there are lies, damn lies and statistics. The stock market went up fairly significantly a few years after 911 even though the economy still sucked as an example.

 

By all accounts the mid to late 30s were still a depression to the people but it wasn't until we went into war mode full stop that we were able to get out of it.

 

Basically we did what Hitler did with Germany in the late 20s. He used massive military production to put the people back to work.

 

We would have eventually gotten out of the depression if WW2 didn't happen but it would have been much longer.

[Steve]

I've met HH, salt of the earth guy. Proud to call him a friend. Had some great discussions talking about all kinds of things, coincidentally enough, a Mexican restaurant he picked in LA (great spot, gotta go back again).

[shygye]

Link

 

... The parallels to 1937 are not reassuring. From 1933 to 1937, the United States economy expanded more than 40 percent, even surpassing its 1929 high. But the recovery was still not durable enough to survive Roosevelt’s spending cuts and new Social Security tax. In 1938, the economy shrank 3.4 percent, and unemployment spiked. ...

 

It was the withdrawal of stimulus during the Great Depression, to balance the budget, that caused the relapse. Will history repeat?

[Steve]

I've been on record saying the U.S. is pretty much irrecovably f**ked. Even if we have another boom in some new industry or technology (my guess is biotechnology next?), it won't expand enough to erase the budget deficits and insane spending. Any boom and the accompanying tax dollars will not be spent to pay off the debt and will only be wasted..as it has all other times.

 

As for the great depression, we definitely would have gotten out of it at some point, I guess the point is would we have gotten out of it in the early 40s without WW2?

[Flashermac]

Ever since I was a kid, I've been pissed off when I'm called "Anglo". For a start, I'm more than just English (Scottish, German, Irish). Secondly, the name meant as is an epithet. I'm sick and tired of the notion that Caucasians (at least of western European ancestry) can be insulted all day long, but everyone else must be genuflected to.

 

 

 

 

[Flashermac]

<< Roosevelt knew we'd be going into the war by the mid to late 30s and it was a matter of when not if. We revamped war production in the mid to late 30s in anticipation of it. >>

 

FDR was damned and determined the US WOULD go into the war, no matter what the voters wanted. He sent the US Navy and Coast Guard to protect British shipping on the North Atlantic when the US was still neutral, and US naval forces took part in the hunt for the Bismark (a US aircraft stopping it first). He also pushed the Japanese hard, virtually daring them to attack. He succeeded. Maybe it was the right move ... hard to say in retrospect, though it certainly effed up eastern Europe and led to the Cold War. FDR was another war president who had never worn his country's uniform.

 

Discuss.