Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

[expat]

...I am beginning to think that the "problem" of immigration is just a red herring being throw out there by the tea baggers. I am not saying immigration is not a problem that needs to be addressed ... it does need to be addressed. But is is NOT the economic cure-all that deserves to be the centerpiece of a political movement (as it seems to be with the tea baggers).

 

Rather, it is one of those easy "blame the other guy" cures that simpletons can readily latch on to. "The economy is not my fault ... lets blame it on the illegal immigrants." "Healthcare spending is out of control because of the illegal immigrants." "My state is nearly bankrupt because of services provided to illegal immigrants." While illegal immigration is a contributing factor in all of these problems, it is by no means the major problem. Nor is it even in the top 5. But because it sounds like an easy fix, Joe Lunch-pail latches onto it like a pitbull.

 

It is right up there with the teabaggers complaining that their taxes have gone up under Obama, when in fact tax rates have gone down. Of course nobody like to pay taxes, but the complaint and the reality simply don't match up.

 

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Those who are singing the immigration blues (including many of my friends) are the same ones who were singing the weapons of mass destruction blues, the war on drugs blues, etc. In other words, to be charitable, they have bought into a lie. To be uncharitable, they are brainwashed. They are good people, but have bought into lies.

[Steve]

Which Article of the Constitution requires a closed border? The USA borders were certainly wide open during the 18th and 19th centuries. Original intent will prevail!

I said they violated their constitutional oath to the country. No specific articles. The border poses an open threat to the U.S. (a matter of opinion but an opinion I think that can be successfully argued).

 

You're right the border has been open for a while and in fact we encouraged people to come to new territories as they opened up.

 

These times are different obviously. :content:

[shygye]

They took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Since there is no Article in the Constitution requiring closed, fenced off, borders there is not a violation!

 

All the terrorists that attacked the USA legally came into the country!

 

... According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, there are approximately 21,000 border agents charged with monitoring the country's borders. Most -- but not all -- are assigned to the Southwest border, that is, the land border that stretches from California to Texas. The number assigned to the area has been dramatically increasing in recent years. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a division of DHS, told us that 17,057 agents are now assigned to that border, up dramatically from 6,315 in 1997.

 

Additionally, a report from the Congressional Research Service documented a steep increase in border agents, increasing every year since 1992. "The rapid and steady increase of Border Patrol agents assigned to the southern border reflects the ongoing interest in Congress in stemming the tide of illegal immigration," the report concluded. ...

 

[Old Hippie]

Ok so the oath is to uphold the constitution...part of which more less says protect the country and assure domestic tranquility...so protecting the borders is part of that. As for the 911 terrorists, yep they entered legally, which is one more reason we need to atke a better look at who we let in here, and from where they came...

 

Illegals to do cause problems, problems which we all have to pay for one way or another. Be it by direct crimes, taking up jail space, medical and social services, creating problems in education etc... But don't worry, neither party will ever really do anything about it.

[dave32]

FDR was a threat to the Constitution in my opinion in a few ways (packing the court, some of the New Deal, build up to the war). It was an ends justifies the means mentality with him to some extent. I'm a bigger admirer of his wife than I am him.

 

Any man who can carry out an affair while confined to a wheelchair, serving as President, and still keep it private (unlike idiot Clinton, who leaves a distaste for the way he comported himself [if you're the leader of the free world do it with style, not BJs from desperate interns]) -- has my utmost respect.

 

Love him or hate him things could've been so much worse had we had someone like say... Bush at the helm during that time period.

 

[dave32]

...I am beginning to think that the "problem" of immigration is just a red herring being throw out there by the tea baggers. I am not saying immigration is not a problem that needs to be addressed ... it does need to be addressed. But is is NOT the economic cure-all that deserves to be the centerpiece of a political movement (as it seems to be with the tea baggers).

 

Rather' date=' it is one of those easy "blame the other guy" cures that simpletons can readily latch on to. [/quote']

 

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Those who are singing the immigration blues (including many of my friends) are the same ones who were singing the weapons of mass destruction blues, the war on drugs blues, etc. In other words, to be charitable, they have bought into a lie. To be uncharitable, they are brainwashed. They are good people, but have bought into lies.

 

Most societies, to some extent, have been based on what turned out to be in retrospect... lies. Humans haven't evolved to have a god's-eye understanding yet.

 

btw - I agree with most of what's written above, but let me add that I see the same kind of thinking in the outright dismissal of the teabaggers and the attempt to write them off as brainwashed conformist clones. Not all that different from their writing off of the evil 'liberals.'

 

As for illegal immigration, getting to any kind of rational discussion or policy in the current environment of hysteria is damn near impossible.

 

We shall see.

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

The border can not be secured because of the cost involved to do it. No one wants an increase in taxes or more added to the National defecit in order to get the job done.

 

All we can expect is each side will fling their shit back and forth and nothing for the most part will get done.

 

That is just how things are!

[rchapstick]

...I am beginning to think that the "problem" of immigration is just a red herring being throw out there by the tea baggers. I am not saying immigration is not a problem that needs to be addressed ... it does need to be addressed. But is is NOT the economic cure-all that deserves to be the centerpiece of a political movement (as it seems to be with the tea baggers).

 

Rather' date=' it is one of those easy "blame the other guy" cures that simpletons can readily latch on to. [/quote']

 

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Those who are singing the immigration blues (including many of my friends) are the same ones who were singing the weapons of mass destruction blues, the war on drugs blues, etc. In other words, to be charitable, they have bought into a lie. To be uncharitable, they are brainwashed. They are good people, but have bought into lies.

 

Most societies, to some extent, have been based on what turned out to be in retrospect... lies. Humans haven't evolved to have a god's-eye understanding yet.

 

btw - I agree with most of what's written above, but let me add that I see the same kind of thinking in the outright dismissal of the teabaggers and the attempt to write them off as brainwashed conformist clones. Not all that different from their writing off of the evil 'liberals.'

 

As for illegal immigration, getting to any kind of rational discussion or policy in the current environment of hysteria is damn near impossible.

 

We shall see.

 

The reason why I dismiss the teabaggers as a bunch of wingnuts is that they offer no real solutions ... they are like some whiny bitch who sits off to the side and complains while filing her nails.

 

They claim to want less government and lower taxes, but gawd forbid they give up their medicare, their social security, or even worse cut military spending. Even on immigration, they bitch about the protection of the border, but don't seem to want to support higher spending to increase border protection. They spending they want to cut is peanuts compared to the big elephants in the room.

 

If the tea party folks want to engage in legitimate debate about how to really decrease the size of the government, then by all means they should do so. What they are doing now is simply annoying.

[Steve]

They took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Since there is no Article in the Constitution requiring closed, fenced off, borders there is not a violation!

 

All the terrorists that attacked the USA legally came into the country!

 

... According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, there are approximately 21,000 border agents charged with monitoring the country's borders. Most -- but not all -- are assigned to the Southwest border, that is, the land border that stretches from California to Texas. The number assigned to the area has been dramatically increasing in recent years. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a division of DHS, told us that 17,057 agents are now assigned to that border, up dramatically from 6,315 in 1997.

 

Additionally, a report from the Congressional Research Service documented a steep increase in border agents, increasing every year since 1992. "The rapid and steady increase of Border Patrol agents assigned to the southern border reflects the ongoing interest in Congress in stemming the tide of illegal immigration," the report concluded. ...

 

If its agreed that illegal immigration is a threat to the general welfare of the US, then it is a violation. My opinion obviously, but one that I think can be sucessfully argued.

 

The increase in border patrols and/or the current methods used to protect the southern border are clearly not enough.

 

If al qaeda and other such groups start bringing people and materials across the border, and a 911 like act of terrorism occurred, I wonder just how long it would take to secure the border?

 

The terrorists entered the country legally, while here they were plotting and it was known that their actions were at the very least suspicious. Someone up the chain of command in the FBI failed to address concerns. I don't think anyone argued that securing the border would have stopped 911. Which was stoppable.

 

 

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

The number assigned to the area has been dramatically increasing in recent years. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a division of DHS, told us that 17,057 agents are now assigned to that border, up dramatically from 6,315 in 1997.

 

Additionally, a report from the Congressional Research Service documented a steep increase in border agents, increasing every year since 1992. "The rapid and steady increase of Border Patrol agents assigned to the southern border reflects the ongoing interest in Congress in stemming the tide of illegal immigration," the report concluded. ...[/i]

 

 

Well, the number dramatically increased until Obama took office. Since then, the number seems to have been essentially static. That is, new hires only backfilling for those who retire, resign, or are terminated. Don't ask me how I know. :content:

 

HH