Guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 sorry but that wasnt me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 I still feel bothered with GTG's comments on this tread 9 days before returning to be with Mee. Re. Myself being defensive: Once we farangs get emotionally involved with someone we call it love. That?s the point where we loose our concern for security and we become very vulnerable. Not surprisingly this is how many men have been shaken-out by women, financially and emotionally. Millions of examples of ruined lives are known, so this is not limited to Thai-farang relationships. Once that far, money no longer is an issue for the guy in love. Therefore GTG?s comments on how easy it must be for a farang to throw a few baht to a Thai gf and to feel like a hero surely come over as insulting. Any attack denigrating people in love make the concerned persons defensive. I know some of you will say ?Oh no, not an other guy going down the pipe? I am sufficiently grown-up to keep my head above the waterline. On the other hand, reading GTG?s comments on how there can not be real caring withouth marriage, because there would be no security for the woman in that case sounds so stereotyped as imposed by certain societies. I thought these ideas came from the catholic religion, but they seem very well implemented in Thai society as well. Mariage is not a pre-requisite at all to guarantee security for a woman, therefore GTG?s comment on this is irrelevant to me. But it makes one think again over the Thai definition of love. Security = money = love??? Whilst for western men love is about emotions, not security and money. I do recall there are emotions in farang woman that love besides their need of security. I talk to Mee on the phone every two/three days, it always starts ?very happy to hear you?, then to ?I miss you to mut? and to be followed by tears. Now, she has enough money not to worry for the near future, she knows I count the days to be with her. So there must be something else than ?worry for money? I would hope. If I am only there to provide money then I do not need to take care of a woman. I need to find out and hope my time with Mee will bring some clarification and thoughts and experiences are welcome. As for GTG feeling sorry for Mee, I could not care less, but I can miss GTG?s cynism. To be continued?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 On the other hand, reading GTG?s comments on how there can not be real caring withouth marriage, because there would be no security for the woman in that case sounds so stereotyped as imposed by certain societies. I thought these ideas came from the catholic religion, but they seem very well implemented in Thai society as well. ---------------------------------- might be a stereotype for you, but a reality in 3rd world countries where socially and economically, genders are not on the same equal foot than in our countries. Ever got the idea, while having a relationship in Thailand, that instead of talking of "money" (you know, the stuff that buys food and clothes and helps put a roof over your head?), what the woman does is showing she has had her trust in men tested before, and has to fend for herself? As for the romantic west, may start with infatuation, but the main statistical reason for problems and divorces is...... yep, MONEY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 I agree with you there. GTG's comments sound just as abusive as some of the guys comments towards these girls. A friend has been married to a ex bargirl for over ten years and they have a wonderful relationship. I've crashed and burned three times in that period of time. They seem as happy now as when they first met. Actually, she's the most caring and loving person I've ever met towards her husband. In that way they do stand out among the farang relationships here in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soongmak Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 Just saw the dutch news today and it featured a major story concerning (child) prostitution in Indonesia. The reporter said just that, that the problem is as rife in Indonesia as it is in neighbouring countries. The feature also had a short interview with a father who sold her daughter to a brothel in Jakarta and he went there once a mont to collect his daughter's money. He told the reporter with a broad smile on his face that he now owned a motorcycle, had his house rebuilt, and he basically had to do nothing anymore but laze around all day. His conclusion was that "life is good." I can't believe that anyone can sell his daughter and feel good about it! Anyway, enough with the rant, It just proves your point that prostitution is bigger in most countries than is suspected and that it is in no way just a thai problem. Cheers, SOONGMAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeng bireley Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 I believe that a lot of thai girls in relationships with farangs wouldnt know if they are in love or not. Given a situation where a guy, a rich guy ( because poor thais often see farangs as rich), comes along declaring their love, treating them well, buying gifts, giving them money and above all offering future security. Security for them and their family to a degree that they have only dreamed about I dont think its a good idea to try to compare a Thais sense of security or how they feel in a relationship with that of a westerner. There are obviously great differences culturally and economically that define how a Thai feels. Thais have feelings of obligation and guilt nutured in them from a very young age. Obligation towards their parents especially, their mother, for the sacrifices made raising them and guilt because they are usually unable to pay back their mother and lesser degree father and other relatives to the level that they feel obliged. I wouldnt like to be in a position to decide how a girl (who started out as my b/g) really feels about me. I know some people say that one only needs to take away the money and see what happens. This is far to simplistic a solution and certainly would lead to the girl rejecting the relationship. Seems almost like a no win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 Well, that's funny in this relationship that I mentioned the guy doesn't have hardly any money. She doesn't even have a car. I don't really get it. But yes it works for them and they seem happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 GTG wrote: Haven't it occured to your minds why many poorer countries don't have so many prostitutes like Thailand? For instance, India, Bangladesh or Nepal. These girls choose not to. Why is that so? Poor or not is not the issue, don't you think? While prostitution occurs in all countries, rich or poor, it's a question of degree. Yes, there are brothels in India, but relatively speaking, it would be my guess Thailand probably does have the highest number of prostitutes per capita in the region while it certainly is far from being the poorest country in South- and South East Asia. I'm not sure what GTG is implying with her question. If she's trying to say that the high number of Thai prostitutes is caused by farang who create the demand, that is complete nonsense. In Thailand, prostitution is accepted by general society. It is accepted that men have mia nois, it is accepted that men frequent brothels, it is accepted that girls, including the young ones, work in the brothels. It is acceptable for parents to encourage or to send their daughters to work as prostitutes. Not in order for the family to survive, but in order to have luxuries (new house, TV, truck, motocy). The farang scene may be most visible, certainly to us farang, but it is hardly significant in terms of numbers. There is huge domestic demand for prostitution, and the conditions (age, health, renumeration, etc.) in which the prostitutes service the local clientele are generally apalling, when compared to the conditions in the farang oriented establishments. For detailed discussion, including a lot of interesting statistics, see "Guns, Girls, Gambling, Ganja," by Pasuk Phongpaichit et al. So, in answer to GTGs question, Thailand has so many prostitues because the Thai culture, combined with its political and economic policies, encourages many young women to enter the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 wsvinja wrote: >I understand what your saying. Is it your understanding that most Thai's operate under this doctrine to that high an extent? I have no clue, actually. Anyway, it is not really a "doctrine", because it would not be conscious behaviour. It is a part of the culture in a country which people adopt 'by osmosis' well before they get any formal education. I'd say your comments re class society are spot on. It's hard for us to understand how exactly it works and to what degree it permeats the entire society because we've never encountered anything like it. Even the Western countries with strong traditions don't even come close. Add to it the education system which effectively tries to remove any vestiges of independent thinking... For an excellent discussion of these topics see Inside Thai Society by Neils Mulder (available in Thailand as well as on Amazon). He sais, "Thai relationships, and the attitudes and values that guide and inform them, are so culture-specific as to warrant distinctly Thai concepts--and terminology--as tools for analysis." How true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 GTG wrote: Phoenix said. ?maybe where you went wrong was to personalize your comments too much.? I?m not sure what he meant by the word personalise. If it means I made the tread become the argument between Thalenoi and me, YES- because he posted his story and I posted my arguments and it went back and forth and what ?s wrong with that? GTG, just to explain what personalize means, I could have written my previous two posts as: Guys, never mind GTG; she's just taking cheaps shots. Kinda ridiculous considering the local demand for whores and mia nois. Even the so-called "good" Thai girls essentially marry for money. It's just that they don't go to Pattaya to find a rich farang but they go to the Uni and work at the office to find a rich Thai guy. And I bet GTG gives a deep wai to her Thai boss every morning although he too has a mia noi or two. Oh well, what else would you expect from a product of an education system that turns children into mindless drones? That would be PERSONALIZING the argument. Very, very uncool. Makes sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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