Rotten system: children supporting parents

[legover]

often it?s a matter of time for many t-f couples before the requests start to roll in. in this capitalist-communist country expedient positions are soon adopted according to the lie of the land when opportunity arises.

 

 

 

Gifts/loans/borrowings/gambling beat traditional work patterns to produce effortless cash & why not if requestees are willing to supply it.

 

 

 

We say yes or no by choice resisting or yielding to the need, pressure, infirmity, age, greed, our own sympathy etc of gfs and their families frequently without concern by them to material sacrifices made that reduce ours, supplicating to their ways. Though it looks like a rotten system it?s rotten only to the degree we allow by subscribing as willing participants/victims, accepting the poorly recognized risk through a haze of euphoria, altruism, guilt, benevolence and the strong need for approval by people often not well understood or known for too long.

 

 

 

buddhists who believe in reincarnation claim to return from previous lives to occupy a station in life aligned with past deeds to compliment the status of their present station as dictated by the principles and objectives of their creed. To compound their previous errors by elevating their standard through benefit without effort has a feel of unmeritorious gain from charity by pressure on demand. Everybody wants to be comfortable, how much finer and easier to do so at another?s cost. farang comes into their lives, they eye his standard and aspire to it without the smallest fraction of the effort the farang put in to acquire it through years of work.

 

 

 

The thai system has been practiced for generations with gradual evolutionary changes. Interfering with their system is none of our business, unless of course one feels compelled or obliged. Assets deployed for the benefit of ageing parents beyond their need for minimum health standards and alleviating severe pain is inefficient use of scarce assets better employed by the young with greater opportunity to break the cycle that produced these circumstances that handed them the problem considering the greater benefit present and future generations will obtain by their wiser use. Giving substantial assets to older people is often imprudent and too late to make a difference that?s valid in the long run. If one were to yield to requests for money from parents it might be better to try to protect the ownership of control of assets to guarantee their preservation for the future of the family, which *might* include you and your issue in certain cases, rather than handing title to older people with a proven track record of inadequate money management skills and in many cases a greater inclination for elaborate swindles under various guises.

 

 

 

TTM wrote: ?The girls may like us more or less, but at the crunch time, they know their priorities?.

 

 

 

?Everything is pointing out you are expected to bear the cost.?

 

 

 

. . . making it easier to discover where one fits in with a presumptuous plan the guidelines of which may be set without reference to the donor of the funds that make it happen.

 

 

 

..for those who often unnecessarily or too quickly comply, these pointers can easily indicate how surely the families of some bgs successfully later manipulate those less well informed or resolute to their advantage through the weakness and ignorance of (bgs?) suitors to satisfy their (families?) desires.

 

 

 

a woman who puts her family ahead of her partner in a serious LTR/marriage has no business being there; nor does the man. whether Thailand or Greenland. hardly a strong relationship.

 

 

 

Thaihome said: Your advice does nothing for her. If you truely care about someone, you don't like to see them in that condition.

 

 

 

She is a grown woman, with plenty of intelligence as Thalenoi said some time ago, to assess her situation accurately. If she is confused and in discomfort about the direction her loyalties lie in her partner has more work to do. Life can be unforgiving to those whose behavior repeatedly alienates their benefactor on the one side and to those who make the wrong decisions on the other. In this case assets are scarce with little room for indulgence. The last reported demand for 25,000 baht to be paid up within the three weeks is a rudeness I could not bear. Some nerve.

 

 

 

CB: Whoever in the family has the most marketability, skills or value will take care of the family. Think about how sports stars (if grew up poor) in america take care of their families and probably a few others......

 

 

 

yes maybe, if there?s enough surplus, if the parents asked nicely, if he feels like it. the parents have no assumed right to Thalenoi?s money or anyone else?s by virtue of being his gf?s parents unless you think their culture takes precedence and forces us to bend to it. if there?s loss of bar earnings here that?s a different matter. If not the whole thing verges on the absurd.

 

 

[Guest]

Hi thalenoi,

 

 

 

I'm sorry about your situation and feel for you.

 

 

 

But i must say that in principle i think its completely right for a person to want to look after/help their parents - in fact i believe its a moral obligation -after all more often than not those same parents worked their arses off and made great personal sacrifices to bring up their kids

 

 

 

Having worked in the british healthcare system the cultural difference was shocking/depressing to say the least

 

 

 

any elderly indian/SEA patient coming to a hospital outpatient appointment would turn up on time, with at least 1 if not many more younger loving relatives in tow, often taking notes of relevant treatment requirements, any treatments/meds prescribed would be dutifully administered on time, any date for surgery was taken gratefully and any postop help with care was eagerly taken on by these same relatives

 

 

 

what a contrast from the majority of white english elderly patients who were taken to hospital alone by the hospital ambulance service after having travelled round to another 10 white lonely elderly pensioners homes to pick them up too.

 

Any dates given for surgery often had to be cancelled or postponed by weeks/months (thus prolonging the risk/suffering caused by the underlying disease) because no relatives would take time off to look after the white pensioner postop, their meds/treatments were not taken because no relative would spare the time to collect the meds from the pharmacy or remind them to take them on time

 

 

 

the asian attitude to parents is to love/cherish/respect them and put their health/happiness above money/work

 

 

 

the english (and typically western) view is that elderly parents are an embarrrasing hinderence that should be swept under the carpet of some state owned old folks home to be mistreated by underpaid sadistic Nigerian untrained auxillary staff - shame on them!

[BelgianBoy]

""the asian attitude to parents is to love/cherish/respect them and put their health/happiness above money/work

 

 

 

Yep, the keyword here is respect !

 

 

 

Cheers !

 

 

[phoenix]

Hi Thalenoi,

 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. But it sounds all so familiar.

 

 

 

I think the system where children take responsibility for the parents has merit in a country like LOS, but must be kept within reason. While parents can still work, a small monthly payment may be appropriate to supplement their lifestyle, especially if their level of income is very low. If a falang is living with a Thai woman, who otherwise would have been working and sending a little money home each month, I think it is reasonable that this falang gives her a similar amount each month to send home. I'm talking about a few thousand Bt.

 

When the parents are so old they simply cannot work, I think it is reasonable to supportr them a little bit more.

 

 

 

But the trouble seems to be that some families really don't know where to draw the line between need and greed.

 

 

 

In my case, I think it was Meh, Nok's mum, who put on the pressure. Poh, a bit older, worked very hard in the fields, and seemed to want or need very little. He hardly drank at all, did much of the cooking, had one set of good clothes and usually wore a threadbare t-shirt and an old pair of shorts.

 

Meh dressed a bit better, and did nothing all day, but chew betelnut, sit around and gossip with her friends. She's occasionally look after grandchidren, sometimes waddle to the pond and catch a fish for dinner, and do some cooking. But she was lazy. And she like gold and status.

 

 

 

The daughters went to work in Taiwan in a textile factory, to support the family. Nok struck lucky, and married the boss' son (twenty years older). She then bought the family a ute (Pick-up truck) on hire purchase, with the intent of paying it off slowly, while sister drove the truck to provide income for the family.

 

Then things went sour, and the Taiwan husband died in an accident.

 

N. came back to LOS, and found she couldn't support the payments on the truck. That's when she started working in the bar, the only way to stop the truck being re-posessed. Things started looking up. She met Ted and then me, and each of us (unbeknownst to each other) agreed to help her quit the bar and go to school, by sending her a bit of money.

 

I went up first time in June last year, to visit the family. She had over her time in Taiwan bought an extra ricefield, they seemed to be reasonably OK. But the truckpayments were still about 8500 bt per month, and would go on for a very long time. When I moved to LOS more permanently in december, I decided that over a few months, I'd pay off the whole truck, because that was the main pressure on her to bring in money.

 

I thought that by getting her out of debt, the family would be able to stand on their own feet.

 

Silly me. The moment they found that Nok had moved in more or less permanently with me, they started building a new wing on the house, almost doubling it in size. the house wasn't really that small to start with, and about avarage condition for the village, but the new wing (built partly with non existing money (=debt) would give them more status.

 

So rather than thinking about putting money into a productive asset, such as a waterpump to irrigate their land, it was wasted on face for mum.

 

Basically, the need for money to improve the family will always extend a little beyond the willingness and ability of the falang to contribute, thus keeping the family in debt, and keeping up the pressure on the girl.

 

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you seem to be coming under the same presure. This will be a test of her, will she stay with you because of her care(love?) for you, or buckle under and go back to work?

 

 

 

BTW, what happened to her wish for a baby? Or am I very cynical if I suspect that may have been part of the same dance?

 

 

 

Good luck T.

[ThaiHome]

In other words, I find it doubtful that a Thai person would interpret this situation as a child being forced to choose between spouse and family (assuming the absence of outright scams, etc).

 

If the spouse is saying "I will never give the money" and the family is saying "you must give us the money" How is this not making the child choose between the spouse and family? If she stays with spouse and doesn't give money to family, there is a chance they will reject her. If she goes to work to get the money, there is a very good chance the spouse will reject her.

 

Sounds like being forced to choose to me, how would a Thai think different?

 

 

 

I agree completely with the rest of your post, particularly the last paragraph, and it expresses my viewpoint and experiences very well.

 

TH

 

 

[Guest]

IMO you encounter a typical case when one marries into a family that is considerably less well off (or at least perceived as such).

 

IMO every foreigner wanting to marry a TG should be aware of this. If she's from a very poor family you'll be considerd the rich one and expected to pay-up more than anyone else when the occassion arises. Can't truly blame them for exploring the possibilities here.

 

The same would apply if a rich Thai marries with a poor upcountry girl, but the chances at that are remote.

 

 

 

When I talk to a TG (BG or non-BG) about education and money matters, the issue of sending money back home always comes up. Several of the girls want to get better education, but have no money left to do so, mostly because of this obligation.

 

My advice to them usually is, use the money to educate your self first. Get a better job, with better pay prospectives, and then when you make more you can start helping your poor folks back home better. It is however a very difficult concept to get accross, as most are send to Bangkok at an early age, just for the purpose of sending money home. If the girl gets a BF who is considerably well off, the parents will not understand if that does not immediately imply a better support.

 

Who can really blame the very poor to try to get something out of an opportunity in a country where the income differentation is amongst the highers in the world.

 

 

 

IMO is best to avoid getting into a LT relationship with a TG from a poor family, unless you don't mind the extra burden.

 

I'm fortunate in that my wife makes as much or even more than I do, and her parents don't need support. In fact, many years earlier, when we bought our first house, we got an interest free loan from them (which has been returned in full).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[think_too_mut]

How true! Your post summarizes it all...

[thalenoi]

Well guys, these are a lot replies and thoughts, I am Still very confused.

 

 

 

We got hit by two problems in the same week:

 

1) My financial situation looks very bad after this unexpected and rather unbelievable unhuman verdict. I will be heading back to Europe late september for 6 weeks to defend myself insofar that is still a possibility and fix other problems.

 

 

 

2) this request adressed to all children (from what I understand), but only one is working in Bangkok for the moment, cleaning hotel rooms to provide 150.000 baht to purchase land. I am affraid commitments might have been made already, increasing the pressure on the children (from there this remark 25.000 baht is needed next month.

 

 

 

There is no way in which I can oblige, and Mee is fully aware of this. Since I get the bad insurance news I have sleepless nights, and now Mee has sleepless nights also, because she does not have a solution to her parents request.

 

 

 

What disturbs me utmost is the fact I learned this week Mee has been working since the age of 14 to 32 to support her parents for 100% of her resources. She had no life for her own, everything she did was to pay debt to her generators.

 

 

 

Giving some money every month to support the family is not the same as sacrifying your life for them.

 

 

 

She is very upset with her parents request and I have no idea where that will lead us.

[Guest]

the asian attitude to parents is to love/cherish/respect them and put their health/happiness above money/work

 

 

 

How very true. The state taking over what used to be (and should be) the families' responsibilities has taken its toll on the Western societies in many ways. But we're not here to discuss Western politics...

 

 

 

I don't see anything wrong with poor Isaan parents trying to reasonably use a new resource when one their daughters gets connected with a "rich" farang. That's the way things are done in that part of the world.

 

 

 

Where I do see a problem is when they use their daughter's loyalty in such ruthless manner as to endanger her ability to keep the relationship. Especially if their requests are extravagant.

 

 

 

I wonder how many t-f relationships with good potential were destroyed by the TGs' parents' greed and lack of consideration for their own offsprings.

[jasmine]

Hello,

 

 

 

I am sorry to hear your situation.

 

 

 

It is true that most Thai are brought up to respect and being grateful to parents. There are a few articles, which praise the parents? loyalties of the Isann people. The loyalties are a good quality but many parents abuse this concept.

 

 

 

The case of your loved one work all her life to support the parents is not unique. Also, a parent become overly demanding is not either. Many villages in the North and Isann, there are many families whose daughters are working just for their parents. And, giving money seems to be coming from daughters more than sons.

 

 

 

I can feel for her, being raised in the type of society as she was, the pressure can be extream. It is up to her to be able to say, "I have done enough" and face the music, which will be psychologically difficult.

 

 

 

There was an article in "SakulThai" about a woman who worked as a housekeeper in Taiwan and the USA for over 30 years and her parents, sisters, brothers and kids spent all money. The lady who wrote the article suggested that she "remove the burden from her back", with this action, it will actually help the relatives learn to depend on themselves.

 

 

 

My sincere empathy and hope things work out.

 

 

 

Regards