JJsushi Posted April 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says MadStockBroker: Hmmmm.... Basically you are saying that we should tip them as compensation for them not being able to do their job properly ?? I can just imagine telling my clients " hey you have to pay me a higher commission because I keep fucking up your stock orders " I don't think I said that. Where in the world did you get that from my post? Your example of getting paid a higher commission is a poor one. You imply that you would get paid a commission regardless of fucking up the order. You cannot justify having your clients pay you a HIGHER level of commission for continuously fucking up orders which means more than one attempt. Either way your analogy suggests you still get paid a commission. Next time give your analogies a little more thought before being quick to quip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torneyboy Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says khunsanuk: Hi, Is it just me or are others disgusted with the attitude in this post as well? Sanuk! Not on your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says whosyourdaddy: The reason why employees do this is the staff is incompetent and if they did not fine thier staff, the staff would sit there and watch friggen TV all the time and do nothing. That is a load of crap and you know it. Employers in every culture have been using that rationale against labor since the dawn of time. It is a effective management practice. Effective? Yes. Necessary? No. How about some owners are basically greedy fucks? 20 B is a good hourly wage for an uneducated Thai. It is equivilant to a plate of food, it is 4 buses going back and forth to work. If the person spent 3000 in a hour and left a 20B tip the staff member would be doubling there salary.. I dont think a waitress should be making a professional wage of 10K + per month, just because they work in a restaurant with guys who visit the restaurant who feel as if they have to give a tip as per western values, in an asian culture. Nobody depends on tips for a living. A girl with a modest education is lucky if she makes the 4000B wage a month. A girl with that education whether she works at a restaurant, a maid, a factory etc should be earning about that level of income. No higher! Nice spiel and all about the relative economics of labor in Thailand. Maybe you forget one thing we are talking about people working in an illicit business where there are higher payouts and payoffs? Nightlife venues make serious money. Where else can one justify paying 110bt for a shot of whiskey when the whole bottle can be bought from the supermarket for 1500bt? Staff should be paid accordingly. Your educated office girl can get a loan, credit card, or mortgage from the bank because she has a perceived legitimate stable job and income. Your service girl cannot. Her job is not even considered respectable and it certainly is not stable. There is something in your elementary payscale model that you forget to add and it is called the risk reward ratio. Nightlife business carries a higher risk from a social, physical and cultural aspect hence the higher reward in the form of profits and pay. Unfortunately you have some cheap prick owners who take advantage of an uneducated and uniformed work force and capitalize upon that. I dont think I have ever left more than a 20B tip ever in 4 years of thailand. Good for you. Personally if I ran up a 3000bt tab and I left a 20bt tip then I would be ashamed. Something a very rich man told me when I started out in my career. He said share the wealth because nobody likes a rich cheap prick. We are not pussys if we dont want to do as americans do. I actually was referring to the term "prick" but if you are welcome to retain the pussy word. Please don't devalue your argument with silly nationalistic notions such as Americans vs whoever else. The nightlife scene is more or less based on tips now in case you didn't know. Ask any owner, bargirl or service girl. You can't walk into a major bar these days without being asked for or presented with a tip and a barfine sign. Regardless of your personal national orgin that is the way it is now in the Thai barscene so maybe you may want to change your thoughts accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says khunmi: Man did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what!!!! Khunmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says greg: </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I guess that is what happens when you life is involved in the education business. education is the only key for success. Yes I realize in the land of dreams an uneducated person can be successful. Here in Asia, it would be a steep uphill battle!!! Now im confused. This point is agreeing with mine somewhat. Thailand is a place where getting an education is not that easy. Should we not therefore be a lot more uderstanding of uneducated people doing better than they might? As for education being the only key for success, I disagree. Luck and hard work are also major factors. Cheers Add to that status, social network, and financial capital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says whosyourdaddy: "You have an attitude problem on this for sure. In the west some uneducatde people make millions Sports stars, models etc. and this in a place where education is freely available." I guess that is what happens when you life is involved in the education business. education is the only key for success. Yes I realize in the land of dreams an uneducated person can be successful. Here in Asia, it would be a steep uphill battle!!! WYD, not only in the land of dreams (is this your synonym for America?) can an uneducated person make a fortune. This goes as well for soccer and other sport players in Europe and Japan. And in my opinion there is nothing but really nothing wrong with it. Sport is entertainment and entertainment should be rewarded, that's at least mho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMAN Z28 Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 PP said: "Unfortunately, in the USA, everybody is taxed on their income. Wait staff are taxed on "assumed" tips, whether or not they actually earn them. So, if you don't tip, the waitress gets screwed twice, once by the lack of tip, the second by Uncle Sam taxing income that was never earned. So, tipping is perceived here as mandatory, in that it's part and parcel of the wait person's salary. It's bullsh*t, but that's the way it is. Tipping is, unfortunately, an ingrained part of American culture and no amount of bitching is going to stop it." But I think you can blame the waiter/waitresses who usually lied on their taxes about getting tips. Does this justify the gov't for taxing "assumed tips" Hell NO!!! ZMAN Z28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarisin Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 Says greg: I was in Patpong recently where they had a wooden box for tips. As i was collecting my change I lifted up the notes. Then the girl automaticaly threw 4 10 baht coins into the box regardless of whether I would of left them or not. I never got the choise. Because this happened so quick another girl saw the empty tray and tried to have a go because she thought I never left anything. This in a bar where I had 2 beers and spoke to 0 girls. On the same night in Patpong I bought s beers for me 2 coronas for another girl 1500bht each and to colas for another girl. Total 640 bht They tried to rip me off big style with about 7/8 LD drink bills. I pointde out what I should pay and gave 650. I was chased out the bar when I insisted on having the 10 bht change. Which they did not initial offer. greg, I wonder if you would mind sharing with the group the name of the two Patpong bars you mentioned? I think there is a positive correlation not only amongst countries of origin, but also whether or not you ever worked for tips as to if you tend to tip generously now. I worked as a waiter, bartender, parked cars, etc. and depended on tips as I was making less than minimum wage way back when. As a result, I tend to tip more than I should no matter what the circumstance - unless the service is utterly horrible. As a rule in the bars, I will leave the coins (unless there is a shitload of them and they are playing games), and hand the dek serve a 20 baht note if the bill was not much. However, for larger bills, I would leave the coins and a few small notes. Then, I would take care of the dek serve, especially if she gave good service. At least 100 baht for her. Of course, sometimes you run into problems when you are swarmed with dek serves who all want individual tips. I refuse to get drawn into that, however, and will generally leave a 100 B note on the plate to go into their communal pot. Now, if you really want to have a little fun, take along a supply of foreign money (South American is nice) and leave that for tips (in addition to that above). They won't forget you - guaranteed. :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 greg, I wonder if you would mind sharing with the group the name of the two Patpong bars you mentioned? Sorry Sarasin I find Patpong a bit disorientating at times and so I would not know the bar names. I dont even know the difference between PP1 and PP2. :: Regarding you past work beind dependant on tips. A friend of mime from UK had a well paid Job. He then lost his wife and took 100% responsibility for his kids. To make ends meet he took up Taxi driving. He came to BKK on holiday and was constantly tipping taxi drivers a lot. 100 bht for a 60bht ride etc This is because he had empathy with them due to his past experience. He hated taxi work due to bad customers running off w/o paying, vomiting etc. I can understand where you come from, a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 To be honest I think people would have responded differently to your post if I you had not called everyone a prick and demanded what they do with their change. Just a thought Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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