think_too_mut Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 >Trust me when I say that they rarely make their stated salary because of the heinous practice of cutting a girls pay for every little mishap by bar owners/managers. JJ, Initially, I was along with you. When I think now, there are some things that have to be said... Tipping in family owned and run restaurants, like side street eateries, absolutelly not neccessary. They get all for themselves. That's to say what other posters touched on. Service girls: go-go dancers would tell you that waitresses go out ST more often than the dancers. Even if it is not true to that extent, they do it and 4K base salary is nothing they worry about. Right now, on the cam, I have 3 dancers at my place in BKK, from Holiwood, NP. It's 7:20pm in BKK, they are just leaving for work. I asked them about tipping and going with customers. "I do that when I am fat" they said, referring to who the waitresses in the bars are. Former go-go dancers. Sometimes new girls who need time to adjust to the big city. Nothing to cry about, at least not about go-go waitresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummigut Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 I the US wait staff are taxed on tips they are assumed to make? Are you serious? If this has happened, I'm sure it ain't even a reasonable estimation. This argument doesn't hold water for me. About tipping... "Regardless of your personal national orgin that is the way it is now in the Thai barscene so maybe you may want to change your thoughts accordingly. " This is contrary to my experience. Personally, I prefer saving that extra money you guys would tip the wait staff (except for certain circumstances where I actually receive help/value) and buy something/gift it to the people who I see everyday (like my favorite street vendors!!! Or a beer for my apartment building staff). <<burp>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 It is true the waite staff in the US are indeed taxed on presumed tips. This has been a great thread. Lots of strong feelings about it. You would think we where taliking about life and death. For me it is very simple. If for a few baht I can make someones day, great! If a dollar here or there can make a differnce, what a great deal. For me it is not about the money so much as the value. And like most things in LOS even tipping is a good value. I think many guys get so into being cheap that they lose sight of why they are here. There seem to be some that would rather save 20 baht than lighten up and spread some cheer. for me money is like manure, it does no good unless you spread it around. I am not a high roller or wasteful, but I have yet to recieve a negative response to just a little bit of generosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted April 2, 2003 Report Share Posted April 2, 2003 [color:"green"] ... but I have yet to recieve a negative response to just a little bit of generosity. [/color] I guess you haven't been to NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 My philosophy on tipping is no more than 10B for a bar or 20B for a restaurant. I apply thai standards to a thai situation. If thais don't tip, why should we? Try to live like a thai so it won't things out of balance. Plus, I wouldn't say thais in these service industries provide western-like service either but that is irregardless to my tipping philosophies. We bitch and moan about the japanese paying 2000B and 3000B for services as it causes these women to change their expectations. To me, these are inflated and unrealistic service prices. Do we need to follow them and be stupid as well? If the japanese or others want to leave 2000B ST, that is great for the girl if she can get whatever. The same thought process seems to apply to tipping or negotiating for these sevices. Why throw away money? I wonder if perceived social injustices or moral guilt is really behind the irrational thought process of excessive (in my interpretation) tipping? Tipping/service negotiations is an individual action and someone should not try to impress upon their perceived justifications on others. If one leaves zero to 10b to 100b, that is their choice and their perrogative. It is up to that person and should not be be judged as right or wrong. Agree or disagree is a different issue....... Cardinalblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 "That is a load of crap and you know it. Employers in every culture have been using that rationale against labor since the dawn of time. " Not really.... I am against labour unions also, but that is a different story. I beleive the service industry needs a major overhaul in thailand. There are way too many people just hanging around doing nothing. A employee at central will only help you if you walk into their zone and will just stand there looking at you if you dont walk near them. I was buying a new fridge the last year and asked a guy for help and the guy refused since he did not work with LG fridges only with the ones beside it. There are so many service staff that nobody takes any responsibility, they dont learn what they need to in order to do the job properly and really dont work at all most of the time. Just my view on things! ............................................................................ "Effective? Yes. Necessary? No. How about some owners are basically greedy fucks?" I am sure there is a better way of motivating people but takes retraining and yes the owners are way too greedy. I had a problem at my gym (patumwan princess) and basically raised enough shit that the management had to send the staff on an afternoon of training. If I did not do this they would have been gone untrained. No proactive training in Thailand, just knee jerk reactions. I must admit I beleive the problem is a management problem not a employee... Just an asian model I guess. ................................................................. "Where else can one justify paying 110bt for a shot of whiskey when the whole bottle can be bought from the supermarket for 1500bt? Staff should be paid accordingly" Does it take any more energy carring a 110B shot of whisky over a 60B shot of whisky.. If you want a 60 B shot there are lots of places you can go. The owner as made the business (infrastructure, aircon, name etc) so he can charge 110B why should the staff be entitled to more. If the staff as added qualities, ie better english, special skills, yes they should get more. But if they are just another waiter than regardless of where you work why should they get paid more. "Personally if I ran up a 3000bt tab and I left a 20bt tip then I would be ashamed" Oh well. If I tried to leave anymore, my wife would scoop it up and just leave the coins. " Something a very rich man told me when I started out in my career. He said share the wealth because nobody likes a rich cheap prick" Must be nice.. Until I save my money to be called very rich, I will keep my tips in my bank account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Says cardinalblue: My philosophy on tipping is no more than 10B for a bar or 20B for a restaurant. I apply thai standards to a thai situation. If thais don't tip, why should we? Try to live like a thai so it won't things out of balance. Plus, I wouldn't say thais in these service industries provide western-like service either but that is irregardless to my tipping philosophies. Nice philosophy however it has a faulty basis. How many Thais do you know that regularly go to NEP or Patpong to drink and carouse? How many or your respectable, non-nightlife, conservative, middle class Thai co-workers and friends do you invite to the Farang bars and go-gos? Yeah, I can see you now in Manadarin asking your middle class Thai female school teacher friend how much you should tip the girl who brought your drink and gave you a little crotch rub. Regular Thai standards do not apply in these places. These places cater to Farangs and Farang money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Says JRRT: You tip in accordance with the customs of the country that you are in, not the one from which you come. What does the salary of the servers have to do with it? Actually you tip according to the establishment you are in. The same as the prices tht you pay. Live and learn. Salary was used as a reference so that you can understand what people really make. I don't know too many other occupations where one can be penalized 20-50% of their pay on a consistent basis by the management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Says greg: To be honest I think people would have responded differently to your post if I you had not called everyone a prick and demanded what they do with their change. Just a thought Cheers Appreciate the thought but I am not into a consensus building mood or being particular about the type of reaction I invoke. People respond how they want to and that is okay by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted April 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Says think_too_mut: >Trust me when I say that they rarely make their stated salary because of the heinous practice of cutting a girls pay for every little mishap by bar owners/managers. JJ, Initially, I was along with you. When I think now, there are some things that have to be said... Tipping in family owned and run restaurants, like side street eateries, absolutelly not neccessary. They get all for themselves. That's to say what other posters touched on. Service girls: go-go dancers would tell you that waitresses go out ST more often than the dancers. Even if it is not true to that extent, they do it and 4K base salary is nothing they worry about. Right now, on the cam, I have 3 dancers at my place in BKK, from Holiwood, NP. It's 7:20pm in BKK, they are just leaving for work. I asked them about tipping and going with customers. "I do that when I am fat" they said, referring to who the waitresses in the bars are. Former go-go dancers. Sometimes new girls who need time to adjust to the big city. Nothing to cry about, at least not about go-go waitresses. I am refering to the nightlife venues. The other venues in which you mention have an altogether different dynamic. Many girls are just service girls and not dancers, regardless of if they are or not you should still tip accordingly if you are pleased with the service. Contrary to what you may believe the salary can make a difference in a girls lifestyle because some are not fortunate to be able to attract 50 barfines in a month. Some may only make the quota and that extra 3000-8000bt can make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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