Is China A 'Paper' Tiger?

[Shit-Spattered Dog]

Big_Kahuna said:

There was a recent article that pointed out that whereas this probably IS the Asian century, it will bedominated by India, that China's just a flash-in-the-pan. India's got the English langhuage skills. Got the education and literacy. Already lots of outsourcing. China's a hollow shell waiting to collapse. Or so the story went. More to it than that, but you get the idea.

 

China's just a pussy.

 

When I was in India a few years ago I met alone a dirt path a young fellow. He was on his way back home to a small village along at the end of this dirt path. THe homes there where he lived where made out of banana tree leaves with a bamboo roofs. He was carrying some books with him so I ask him if he was coming home from school. He replied that he was in his 2nd year of tech school learning computers and electronics. I asked him what he will do when he gratuates. He replied that I will probably work on the farm in the fields.

 

Shiit.

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

Among some people there is a concern about Europe losing their manufacturing industry. Others like my self think that it is good that there is a counter balance to the onlly remaining super power with world dominace aspirations.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[check_bin_krap]

Scandinavian countries have faced the competition a long time. Your country Alholk, has coped by competence. Mine has natural resources

 

Finland, Denmark have done well also. Maybe its a matter of getting it right if you are forced, as education is pretty high? And that there is equality with women, which makes the work force strong? Dunno, but all the Scandi countries do well.

 

I agree. I don't mind China being an economic power. It strengthens their neighboros as well. Viet Nam have gotten a lift from it. When it comes to military - I am afraid of the Chinese.

 

I'd prefer the US every time if it comes to the military power part.

[Nervous_Dog]

Have t agree with you check bin, last 40 years china has been wondering around the globe invading countries, unlike the usa thankfully!

 

DOG

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

I fail to see how how China could be a military threat in our part of the world. As for prefering American military superiority I don't know. We don't have any oil but you you do. What do you think will happen when the oil becomes scarse and the yanks feel that all oil belongs to them. Anyway haven't you seen and read reports from Iraq, guantanmo and other places. American soldiers are not something I would loke to se in my country.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[check_bin_krap]

My views are coloured from that my family is Viet also Alholk. I don't only look at it from Norway's side. China has been and will be a worry for them a long time military. Its not that long time since the last war between them, and there is a dispute about territory on now. It is not only vs Taiwan that China are obnoxious!!

 

You are correct though, US behaviour recently is worrying. My hope is that these things goes in circles. US is a democracy, and a counter reaction is bound to come. Thats a difference from China.

[Steve]

Granted, the USA have not been the best world citizen lately. Replace American military, economic and political power with China and does it get worse or better?

 

In a perfect world, there would be no country that has the kind of power that rules its era. But we're not in a perfect world and it will always happen that someone is on top. The best we can all hope for is that they use it wisely (by not using it all or using it for global good).

 

Taiwan, one can understand to a certain extent. But China has made statements toward Japan. What claim does it have to tell Japan what it can or can't do. Yes, its based on their treatment at the hands of the Japanese in WW2 but is that a valid excuse?

 

My hope is that China moves toward a democratic institution. That the free market forces and world opinion of them directs them towards that end. I'd have little problem with them being the next top world power if they were a republic or a democracy. I'd be scared sh*tless if they became that powerful with the present rulers they have.

[David_66_UK]

Can't say I have met too mnay Chinese people and my only direct experiance of China was a 1 week visit to Hong Kong, but it was British back then (apart from the Passports ) - and obvioulsy I could not understand a word anyone said............

 

Having given my qualifications for my opinion I hate to admit it that I get the impression that the Chinese attitude to the rest of the world, makes Thailand kinda look like a welcoming melting pot of cultures and diversity.

 

I might not agree with much of what the good old US of A Govt does (usually on the basis of short sighted stupidity), but at least I am pretty confident that they don't regard me as somehow inherently inferior to them and act accordingly in the world.

 

Don't know enough about the Chinese to feel the same about their intentions - but don't think I will have to worry too much for at least the next 20 years.

 

Would be more concerned if I was in Burma, Vietnam, Taiwan - or in a nearby "Stan" . It may be no accident that China is the size it is.

 

Kinda think it is sweet that the US of A seems to think of China in terms of the last 50 odd years and forgets that they are dealing with a culture / country going back a few thousand years and able and happy to think "longggggg term", rather than just up to the "next quarters results". (Some exaggeration here obviously!) and until recently they were dealing with individuals who were pretty much middle aged before the country became "Communist".

[Old Hippie]

This could all be part of the smoke screen...or not...but seems a bit rediculis if allowed to happen...

 

Unocal Bid May Face Nat'l Security Hurdles

June 23, 2005 4:07 PM EDT

BEIJING - China's third-largest oil producer made a hostile $18.5 billion bid Thursday for U.S. oil company Unocal Corp., marking the communist nation's most ambitious attempt yet to acquire a Western corporation and setting up a possible showdown with American politicians over national security issues.

 

The purchase by state-owned CNOOC Ltd., if completed, would be the biggest yet in a multibillion-dollar wave of foreign acquisitions by Chinese companies trying to secure a place as global competitors.

 

It comes amid a flurry of foreign oil and gas deals by China as its government, facing stagnant production at home, tries to secure energy abroad for its booming economy, already the world's third-biggest oil importer behind Japan and the United States.

 

The offer sets the stage for a possible takeover battle with Chevron Corp., reflecting China's new willingness to adopt Wall Street's more aggressive tactics. Chevron had offered to buy Unocal for a lower price of $16.6 billion - a proposal that Unocal's board already had accepted. Until recently, hostile takeovers by Chinese companies abroad were almost unheard of.

 

El Segundo, Calif.-based Unocal, the ninth biggest U.S. oil company, said it would evaluate the CNOOC offer, but that its board's recommendation to shareholders to accept the Chevron offer remained in place.

 

Chevron remained confident that its bid would prevail. Vice Chairman Peter Robertson told CNBC television that the Chevron bid is "very competitive" and that he believes Unocal shareholders will approve the Chevron offer relatively soon.

 

"We think it is the best-value proposition on the table. We think we're going to prevail at the level we're at," Robertson said.

 

Chevron, based in San Ramon, Calif., offered in April to acquire Unocal in a deal that would give Unocal shareholders a choice of $65 per share in cash, Chevron stock or a mix of stock and cash.

 

A deal with CNOOC, if it were to go forward, would almost certainly meet obstacles in Washington. Even before CNOOC made its offer, two members of Congress appealed to President Bush last week to review it for possible security threats. They warned of China's "pursuit of world energy resources."

 

Robertson told CNBC that a Chevron deal would put more oil and gas into the commercial market.

 

"Americans are worried about the supply of oil and gas. There is an issue here of who can put more oil and gas into the market on a commercial basis. I think if the Chinese government buys this asset, you can be sure that much of these materials will go to China," Robertson said.

 

In Washington, Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., told a Senate Finance Committee hearing on China's currency system that a review by a federal panel for national security considerations would be imperative.

 

Treasury Secretary John Snow, who heads the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, responded: "I would fully contemplate that the parties ... would want to avail themselves of that process," adding that it remained hypothetical.

 

CNOOC chairman and CEO Fu Chengyu insisted Thursday that national security wasn't an issue, calling it a friendly bid and saying it would be superior for Unocal shareholders.

 

"This transaction is purely a commercial transaction," he said in a conference call with reporters. "We are confident that the U.S. government will support this project."

 

The federal panel that considers security risks of foreign firms buying or investing in U.S. companies in March cleared Chinese computer maker Lenovo's $1.75 billion purchase of IBM's personal computer division, which created the world's third-largest PC maker. Several U.S. lawmakers asked for the review,

 

The panel meets in secret and includes representatives from the departments of Treasury, Defense, Justice, Commerce, State and Homeland Security. The committee makes recommendations directly to the president, who can block sales for national security reasons.

 

George H. W. Bush is the only president ever to block such a deal, stopping the sale of a Seattle aircraft parts manufacturer to China in February 1990.

 

Elsewhere, China has forged oil and gas deals in countries ranging from Sudan to Kazakhstan to Venezuela. Beijing is competing with Tokyo for access to Russian oil from a planned Siberian pipeline.

 

China used to meet its own needs from domestic oil fields but became a net importer in the 1990s and now is one of the world's biggest consumers, along with the United States and Japan.

 

The bid for Unocal is "a case of the Chinese trying to secure supply for their own purposes," said Daniel Hynes of ANZ Bank in Melbourne, Australia. "With their oil needs growing exponentially, securing this asset would put them in very good stead for the future."

 

CNOOC's offer is the biggest Chinese attempt at an unsolicited takeover of an American company - but not the first.

 

Appliance maker Haier Group and two U.S. private equity firms offered $1.28 billion for Maytag after the American company agreed to be bought by another U.S. firm. Maytag says it is considering the Haier consortium's offer.

 

Troubled British automaker MG Rover courted a Chinese firm as a possible corporate savior, trying to sell itself to state-owned Shanghai Automotive Industries Corp. But the Chinese partner decided against a deal and Rover collapsed.

 

CNOOC said its deal with Unocal would more than double its production and increase reserves by nearly 80 percent. The company estimated that 85 percent of the combined reserves of both companies are located in Asia and the Caspian Sea region.

 

CNOOC's chief financial officer, Yang Hua, told Dow Jones Newswires that his company is "prepared to closely cooperate ... to get U.S. approval for this deal." The company plans to retain "substantially all employees, including those in the U.S," noting that Chevron, in contrast, plans layoffs, he said.

 

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Associated Press business writer Gary Gentile in Los Angeles and correspondents Peter Enav in Taipei and Min Lee in Hong Kong contributed to this report.

 

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On the Net:

 

http://www.transactioninfo.com/cnooc

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

My views are coloured from that my family is Viet also Alholk. I don't only look at it from Norway's side. China has been and will be a worry for them a long time military. Its not that long time since the last war between them, and there is a dispute about territory on now. It is not only vs Taiwan that China are obnoxious!!

Yes your views would be affected by that just as my views could be affected by the fact that my parents came from a country that is regarded as America's lapdog.

You have probably been to Vietnam more than I as I have only been there for a week. Just as in Thailand you have to get to know people a little before they will speak their mind. My personal take from the trip was that they haven't forgotten the American invasion although they won't speak about it with everyone.

 

I know about the problem between Vietname an China which has been going on several hundred years. I beleive that the current dispute is mostly about the Spratly islands which when the chips are down is just about fishing rights and and other natural resources such as oil. I am not saying that we should exchange one evil empire for another.

 

You are correct though, US behaviour recently is worrying. My hope is that these things goes in circles. US is a democracy, and a counter reaction is bound to come. Thats a difference from China.

No democrasy is better than it's voters. I still remeber the book "The soul of a new machine" . There was a chapter in this book where one of the blokes had a map on his wall depicting America as New York and California with the interviening wastelands. Unfortunately this is a true description. When we travel abroad we don't meet people from Arkansas and Missouri. We meet people from New York and California who didn't vote for Bush.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK