Hugh_Hoy Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 suadum said:I would add that (from listening/reading interviews with her) a) she knew right from wrong but still chose to act as she did & had a percieved gain from her actions. That negates any "psycho" defense as it should as too many people get free passes for doing heinous things by claiming they have diminished capacity. Regards, SD I think "insanity" would be a tough one to plead in most U.S. courts in this case. "Insanity" in the clinical sense and meeting the requirements to claim "insanity" in the legal arena are two different animals. One can be "insane" (goofy, nutty, mad, whatever) and, as you point out, criminally held accountable. Actually, "insanity" is very rarely used as a defense because of public skepticism. It is usually used as an absolute last resort. We hear about these cases where "nutters" get off without conviction usually in very high profile cases...the most heinious of crimes (like serial killers or child killers). "Deminished capacity" is a relatively new concept and is different from "insanity". It won recognition, as I recall, years ago--in San Franisco. where else --when a guy walked into the County offices and capped a county supervisor. Was referred to as the "Twinkie Defense". (Interesting. For those of you who haven't known about it before, "Google it", if you care.) I'm sure that in California, if news accounts are accurate (and I emphasize "IF"), the presence of alleged racial remarks would also result in the case being prosecuted as a "hate crime". HH (mak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Given that the US has the highest prison population in the world, the regularity of cases such as O.J. Simpson, and the thin legal excuses for Guantanamo, etc., most people of the western world would call the US legal systhem as far from "justice", as close to "arbitrary" and "draconian" as one can get. I have to shiver whenever i have to read the US legal sythem presented as exemplary for anything other than how it should not be. But that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 sourkraut said:Given that the US has the highest prison population in the world, the regularity of cases such as O.J. Simpson, and the thin legal excuses for Guantanamo, etc., most people of the western world would call the US legal systhem as far from "justice", as close to "arbitrary" and "draconian" as one can get. I have to shiver whenever i have to read the US legal sythem presented as exemplary for anything other than how it should not be. But that's just me... you forgot innocent Wacko Jacko...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 sourkraut said:Given that the US has the highest prison population in the world, the regularity of cases such as O.J. Simpson, and the thin legal excuses for Guantanamo, etc., most people of the western world would call the US legal systhem as far from "justice", as close to "arbitrary" and "draconian" as one can get. I have to shiver whenever i have to read the US legal sythem presented as exemplary for anything other than how it should not be. Do not confuse shitty laws (many of the drugs laws, three strikes, etc) with the mechanics of the system. I do believe that the US justice *system* is amongst the best in the world (there are others equally as good, but none better). The OJ trial is a prime example of the system working perfectly. Yes, I do believe that he was guilty. But the prosecution fucked up big time and the system protected the individual's rights from illegal prosecution. Not the system's fault...the system worked perfectly. But if you want to have an example of the US system fucking up in an alarming way, google "Jose Padilla" unless you know all about that particular case already. Here is one site: http://www.chargepadilla.org The case makes me afraid to be a Yank! But this is getting too off topic to discuss here... See P127, some people (thanks Hugh & SK) get what I was saying *to Elef*. Regards, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 sourkraut said:Given that the US has the highest prison population in the world, the regularity of cases such as O.J. Simpson, and the thin legal excuses for Guantanamo, etc., most people of the western world would call the US legal systhem as far from "justice", as close to "arbitrary" and "draconian" as one can get. I have to shiver whenever i have to read the US legal sythem presented as exemplary for anything other than how it should not be. But that's just me... Highest prison population. Hmmmm...maybe per capita. Given that the U.S. was at the forefront of moden penal institutions in the late 1700's (while the U.K. and Continent countries were still conducting various forms of "trial by ordeal" and hanging everybody else) I guess we have the process/product down pat by now. "Regularity of cases such as O.J. Simpson"? Give us a break. That was an anomoly. You or I would've been convicted. (Enough evidence to convict 10 people in that case.) Believe me, if you're ever accused of a crime in the U.S., you will have more rights and privilges than you could believe. Can't think of any other country where I'd feel "safer". HH (mak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted September 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hugh_Hoy said:Highest prison population. Hmmmm...maybe per capita. Hugh, per capita makes it worse But I had to look it up. Per Nation Master, the top ten countries holding prisioners, first total and second per capita (2003 stats): 1. United States 2,078,570 prisoners 2. China 1,549,000 prisoners 3. Russia 846,967 prisoners 4. India 313,635 prisoners 5. Brazil 308,304 prisoners 6. Thailand 213,815 prisoners 7. Ukraine 198,386 prisoners 8. South Africa 180,952 prisoners 9. Mexico 175,253 prisoners 10. Iran 163,526 prisoners 1. United States 715 per 100,000 people 2. Russia 584 per 100,000 people 3. Belarus 554 per 100,000 people 4. Palau 523 per 100,000 people 5. Belize 459 per 100,000 people 6. Suriname 437 per 100,000 people 7. Dominica 420 per 100,000 people 8. Ukraine 416 per 100,000 people 9. Bahamas, The 410 per 100,000 people 10. South Africa 402 per 100,000 people US is far and away the winner and in illustrious company as you can see. But I still maintain that is a function of shitty laws mostly stemming from Ronnie Ray Gun's inane War on Drugs legacy. Not the US judicial system which is entirely fair with how it interprets and executes said laws (which is its sole function). Regards, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Maybe it means other countries "take no prisoners" No question that about 28% of felony arrests made here are for drug-related offenses. The rest are mainly for violent crimes and property crimes. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Sauerkraut , ** but on an impulse from her disturbed mind. ** Don't read too much in this , I am driven by the same force. BuBi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 suadum said: The OJ trial is a prime example of the system working perfectly. Yes, I do believe that he was guilty. But the prosecution fucked up big time and the system protected the individual's rights from illegal prosecution. Not the system's fault...the system worked perfectly. Regards, SD After i have read the book of the prosecutor i was not able to detect how the prosecution "fucked up", but how the best defending team money could buy was able to bend the system. Especially because a simple domestic murder case was converted into a race issue (which seems to be in the US a far bigger issue than in any other western country). So, yes, the US system works, can even be easily bent - as long as you have enough money. And i don't even want to go into the deathpenalty issue here, especially considering unproportionality between race/income level and crime commited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Something like 80% of the prison population in the US is for non-violent drug related "offences". These terrible offences may include simply living in a building were drugs were manufactured and/or sold -- whether you were involved or not. You are guilty of "conspiracy". But hey, prison building is a big industry in the US right now. Got to keep them filled somehow. BTW, Tommy Chong, of Cheech and Chong, is going in for 9 months in a minimum security federal pen. It is part of a deal to get the feds to leave his family alone. They weren't selling drugs, just pipes and such. But Cheech and Chong have a "bad boy" reputation with the feds from their films of 30 plus years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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