Violence in Living Doll

[wonderlust]

Solo1mick said:

wonderlust said:

Last time I was on Walking Street the place was packed with western men and Thai girls. Most of the western men looked more than capable of defending themselves. I doubt the scholarly looking OP is typical of the sort of western man you'll find in Pattaya, many of whom are thugs who are no strangers to violence. The only Thai men were fairly puny looking barbecue sellers. Personally I don't engage in physical violence but I don't accept that one phone call from a Thai whore and hordes of Thai warriors would flood into Walking Street, slaying the fearful little farangs as they go.

 

so somebodys appearance automatically makes them a thug and no stranger to violence. ::

Sorry but that whole reply is the most pitiful statement I have read.

 

It doesn't seem you did actually read my reply. Where did I say someone's appearance makes them no stranger to violence? I didn't say that and I don't believe that.

[Guest]

Hi gadfly,

I think that is all OH is saying. Of course these things are not justified, but given the environment, bad things are likley to happen.

Perhaps you are right, but he did use the word "fault". In any event, I have worded my own posts in ways that I come to regret so you may very well be right.

 

Putting aside OH's post for a moment, however, there are some posters here (I don't think OH is one of them) who tend to confuse (a) it shouldn't be surprising that bad things happen in go go bars with ( bad things are justified if they happen in a go go bar. I always thought it odd that this Pat Robertson view of Bangkok's nightlife sprots up here more than a few times.

[Old Hippie]

"...there are some posters here (I don't think OH is one of them) who tend to confuse (a) it shouldn't be surprising that bad things happen in go go bars with ( bad things are justified if they happen in a go go bar...."

 

Gadfly1,

 

Not saying the extreame over kill that seems to run rampent is justified, . BUT...that is my/our(?) western view. Thais maybe Asians in generel seem to take some stuff to extreames when they finally do go off. To them, it is justified. My point is, knowing this, if you go into a place with these types of people, get into something, and push it, full well knowing you are going to get rat packed, or meet extreame violence, and you do it anyway, then yeah, it is your fault if you get your ass kicked. You stick your hand in a hungry tiger's cage, and he bites it off, who's fault is that? Not the tiger's...

 

So the point is, don't fuck with these people, if they start, call the mamasan, or leave. Plenty of places where this type stuff doesn't happen as a norm.

[LuckyMFocker]

wonderlust said:

I certainly don't advocate violence and nothing I have posted suggests I do. I just don't buy the idea that westerners have to be as fearful of Thais as some posters here obviously are.

 

It is sounding more and more like you are taking this as a personal affront on your manhood. Yes, you can probably kick some small thai guy's ass if you had to.

 

But here's what I've gather so far from the stories.

 

1) Finding someone who will accept payment to kick ass is not hard in Thailand

2) Thai men will jump into a fight without asking questions about who started what and will always side with the other Thais

3) Thai men may not stop beating a man when he's unconscious

4) Crowds will not intervene to stop the fight or call police to assist a farang who might be in the process of being beaten to death

5) A fight may break out at the slightest misunderstanding handled incorrectly

 

Fearful is a loaded term. But how can you not be extra careful in an environment like this?

 

Back at home, people might start a little fistfight in a club or bar. It'll get broken up after a bloody nose. There's another club I go (that has excellent music) where they don't serve beer in bottles for very good reason, have metal detectors at the door, and frisk you before you enter. The last time I was there, some bouncers kicked some guys out for fighting. One of them came back minutes later with a gang of thugs and the metal security gate came crashing down the front door, locking them out and locking the patrons in. Guns were brandished, threats were exchanged.

 

You can be sure I'm extra careful about starting anything with anyone, regardless of how big or small they are in that particular bar. Am I fearful of the patrons? I guess that's one way of describing the situation.

[David_66_UK]

there are some posters here (I don't think OH is one of them) who tend to confuse (a) it shouldn't be surprising that bad things happen in go go bars with ( bad things are justified if they happen in a go go bar.

 

For me it does not matter whether bad things are justified or not - it's enough that I KNOW I am in an environment that they can happen and that if they do the consequences can be out of all proportion to the initial incident. Not all incidents turn out like this, but it is enough for me to KNOW that they can to react accordingly. (Humble pie / running away / hiding behind a conveniant BG - all seem to work quite well :

 

I still get pissed off over them and am not happy that they happen, but I am not willing to even risk having my arse kicked or worse over things that do not matter. I accept this as just part of the "price" of the Thai Nightlife. Be better if it wasn't like this, but it is - and I deal with it.

 

FWIW a lot of incidents come from (or are made worse) by communication problems. The fact that a Thai can speak some English words and can understand the some words of what you say (although a lot does IME involve Mr Farang talking and the BG merely nodding along, without any real clue!) does not mean that they understand the meanings let alone the subtlties of what is being said. The word Fuck is a simple example, whilst many BG's will nowadays realise that some Farang (Brits!) use the F word at least 5 times a minute without meaning anything bad, many (most?) Thais, including BG's, still think of the F word as having the same meaning as it probably did in the UK 30 odd years ago.

 

Add in Alcohol and drugs to a communication consisting of a literal understanding of 1 word in 10 then, where the actual understanding was lost 2 hours ago, then you have the potential for misunderstanding. It is easy to assume that folk understand more than they do (it's their job) and even then you are relying on someone not having a bad day, or being someone just out for trouble and looking for an excuse.

 

BTW I use the word KNOW because this is from first hand experiances and observation, not just from reading in the internet...........or 2nd hand from a bloke in a bar.

[EasySt]

Gadfly1 said:

 

At the end of the day, I think all of this highlights the fact that Thailand is not the blissful Buddhist paradise of peace that some here make it out to be.

 

That surely isn't me. I love it for it's wild west atmosphere of few rules and all sorts of things that are fucked up about it. That to me is what makes it a paradise of sorts. No, the place you elude to is what 'some' think the western world is. That is surely not MY idea of paradise.

 

On a related note, it can be a sort of blissful buddhist paradise of peace if you get away from the sex tourist stuff. Surely you can't make a general statement like you did about the whole country based on what happened between a sex tourist and a bargirl. ::

[shygye]

Oh, yeah. Like going to hi-so bars. You know, the one where a cop was killed for having his foot stepped on.

[Guest]

Watching this thread develope is interesting!

 

Last April a friend and I were away for the first few days of Songkran in of all places, Pattaya! I had just barfined some girl on Soi 2 and was eating with her in the restaurant by Sabai Inn and lodge! My friend was playing in the 2nd bar on the right from Sabai Inn and all of a sudden he came in the restaurant and offered 500 baht for a 5 gallon bucket of ice water...they, of course gave it to him and he ran off! About 10 minutes later he came in with this tale: He was throwing water at everyone in the bar as they threw it at him. He poured the bucket of ice on some BG and she hit it out of the way on to a pool table! The next thing he knew two Thai guys rushed him with punches. As he fended off these two guys punches came from all around him. Out of no where 7 guys jumped him! He came back without the bucket with welts all over his face, arms and neck! I went back to the bar to retrieve the bucket and saw a table covered in water and alot of pissed off guys! They said, "That guy come back- he die"

 

I've only felt threatned a couple of time in Thailand in 11 years! He got it in 3 days of being in Thailand.

He also saw alot of problems throughout his trip. Some people just always find themselves in trouble. The problem is, in Thailand if your the type that finds trouble often you without doubt will have Thai guys that will stand up against you! Thai guys tend to join rather then be stand offish if other Thai guys are in the mix with a Falang!

 

How often would a falang help another if in the mix with Thai people!

 

Jep dii

[Bangkoktraveler]

Quote from Gadfly:

[color:"red"]"And yet some here - I am not singling you out - will go to preposterous lengths to try to justify these attacks."[color:"black"]

 

I think what you are refering to is the type of beast falangs are. No matter what happens, some will hold the position that the falang was at fault.

 

When 4 Thai men tried robbing me, some people tried implying that I was wrong. As far as I am concerned, it appears it is a waste of time and energy to discuss this aspect of Thailand.

[Guest]

No matter what happens, some will hold the position that the falang was at fault.

 

When 4 Thai men tried robbing me, some people tried implying that I was wrong. As far as I am concerned, it appears it is a waste of time and energy to discuss this aspect of Thailand.

You are right, that is exactly what I was referring to: "No matter what happens, some will hold the position that the falang was at fault." It seems similiar to those who simply cannot tolerate any criticism of anything to do with Thailand. I cannot figure out the psychology behind this type of thinking (why do they so desperately need to cling to this obviously false illusion?), but you are right that it is a waste of time trying to intelligently discuss these sorts of issue with some.