MaiLuk Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I don't play favorites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hmmm...NO, re examine it here...she got a drink, wanted more, didn't get one, she called him a cheap charlie, not to start trouble, but to try and get another drink...he turned a few insults in to an escalated event. HE STARTED THE PHYSICAL Side of things. Now, you want to tell me she was out of line and excessive? yet you say he should have head butted her hard and knocked her out, after a little name calling...hmmm...childish name calling met with a knock out blow?...NOPE, YOU ARE WRONG HERE that is is out of line. When he got in her face, she felt threatened, when he head butted her, she realized this WAS A REAL FIGHT in which she might get seriously hurt, and lose face/ and suffer physically. She took extreame measures to protect herself, plain and simple. He started the physical side, she defended her self. Had she slapped him back, he would have (in her mind) hit her harder, thus she had to make the first shot count, it did. I am sure Palliote will think twice before he does this again. I don't know ifyou have ever really had to fight to protect yourself, I don't be a drunken bar scuffle, but a real fight, where death, or permanent harm might come to you, you do extreame things to survive, my guess is, this girl may have had to do that before. It seems this guy, and many of us are dealing in a realm we don't fully understand here... As I said before, if you speak even a little Thai, or just watch the body language, we get called names and insulted all the time in these places, it hardly warrents knock out blows via headbutts...A farang taking on a girl 1/2-1/3 his size by getting in her face, and headbutting her is what is Uncalled for. I see nothing wrong with what she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 You are correct that I cannot make that statement with absolute certainity. It was based on my experience and others I know; perhaps it should have been more nuanced. And it is good to hear that Farangs can prevail in these encounters. In the incident, you described, it sounds as though you had an over-confident BG with poor judgement. She had, as you say, a "scheme to deviously time this bomb shell to the absolute worst possible time." She told an implausible story: "she lied saying I broke everything with this wild story!" And her behaviour was likely to irk everyone, including the police: "She was gloating and talking trash to me..." Two comments. First, the fact that she had a scheme to begin with, used an implausible story to back her scheme and acted rudely in front of the police strongly suggests that she saw the odds as strongly stacked in her favor. Why else would events unfold in the manner you describe? Since she is a nightlife regular, she should have a good understanding of what will likely occur (particularly if this is regular ploy), and since she was scheming from the outset, she has obviously given the matter some thought and thought she could win. Why? Perhaps because BGs usually do win. There are no absolutes in these sorts of affairs (about this you are correct) and BGs do make mistakes and overplay their hand. Second, what happens when a BG doesn't overplay her hand, wais the police (something that probably won't occur to most Farangs), doesn't talk trash and doesn't tell a "wild story" but instead tells a semi-plausible story? In short, what happens when a scheming BG acts with a bit more constraint and better judgment? I think we all know the answer to that one. You are correct; an absolute statement is not fair. But I do think it is fair to say, on balance, BGs have a substantial advantage, and although you perhaps didn't intend it, the incident you described helps demonstrate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Which is why I would never bring a BG to my house. Agree. But unless you are using a NEP ST room (and can simply walk out), this problem can arise in a hotel room. I many ways I see this is as a bigger problem than bar padding or violence in bars - mainly because I have pretty good track record of avoiding those problems but not this one. It is awkward, can ruin an evening and has the potential to turn into something really nasty involving the police. And when that happens, the odds are not in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I would like to add some balance to this thread. We spend large amounts of baht at these places to have fun and don?t necessarily expect the staff to get in our face and shout foul insults to try to ruin our night whenever they feel like it. Yet this is not uncommon. I can't think of any other industry this kind of childish bullying is tolerated by a service staff and am appalled this is accepted so readily by most. Imagine ordering at a restaurant and the server adds ?would you like fries with that?? you say ?no thank you? and she screams ?well then fuck off you cheap bastard!? It?s ludicrous, but that?s pretty much what happens in the bars. You are right, but in a strange way, service is often better in bars than in regular restaurants in Thailand in one sort of amusing respect. Ever notice how hard it can be to get a waiter's or waitresses' attention in many Thai restaurants? I just got back from lunch at the Emporium, and it took considerable effort to get anyone to give me a menu, take my order and get my check. And the staff to customer ratio must have been at least three times what you find in an American restaurant. But in a go go bar, I never had a problem getting a dek serve's attention to order a drink; usually it's the opposite problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 If you step back and think about it, if you both just walk out the door and go home you are probably going back to a more affluent and comfortable life than her and in that sense you "win". I would be surprised if most bargirls don't see it that way, especially after you have been tossing around money in front of everyone. It's something I usually try to be a little sensitive about. On the other hand, if someone is a little nasty, insults you, or calls you a Cheap Charlie you can use it to your advantage by just laughing or walking away from them and knowing that they will probably think that you got the best of them. If you want to really rub it in and give her a hard time and are willing to spend a bit of money, buy another round of drinks for the other girls but not for her. If she still makes a scene then cancel all the drink orders, leave, and let the other girls get pissed at her. But that would really be going out of your way to be vengeful, and maybe the other girls wouldn't go along with it; I would be happy with just laughing it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Gadfly1 Farangs can sometims prevail in Thailand in disputes with Thais but you wouldn't want to depend on it. In a petty dispute it is not so important who prevails but when the odds are very high it becomes a different story. Farangs can prevail when the odds are high provided they have the backing of influential Thais and the influential Thais that are backing them are more influential than the Thais backing the Thai in the dispute. And of course the ability to pay your way out of things in Thailand that you could never get away with in your own country is also possible provided you know the ground rules in Thailand. Getting back to the original incident i don't believe as some posters are saying that Palliote actually head butted the girl rather he feigned to do so. Still not a smart move but there is a big difference. The seedy nightlife of Pattaya probably has a couple at least of such incidents every night ....goes with the territory i suppose..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 OK here is a long post but what the hell. Nothing else to debate about. The girl was nothing more than a piece of shit trouble maker. There were a few clues that lead to this incontrovertable conclusion. (try to put a wrap on that phrase ) First she has a ladydrink bought by palliotte's friend. With lady drink in hand she asks palliotte for another ladydrink. That is the first clue that this girl is at least a pain, maybe even a dumbshit trouble maker. Second, when palliotte declines, she calls him a cheap charlie. Even though his buddy is buying lady drinks left and right. So the girl does not care if she gets these punters in a bad mood and derails the temporary gravy train the other girls are enjoying. Basically she does not give a fuck. About the punters. And about the other girls. Otherwise she would not run her mouth for no reason whatsoever. That was the second clue and now its official. The girl just wants to make trouble. Palliotte reacts knee jerk style and says fuck you. Since the girl was the one to run her mouth, his comment was not out of line. Not even remotely. Regardless, our girl who wants to make trouble acts as if it is out of line. She gives palliotte the finger. She starts talking more trash. She won't give it a rest. Third clue that she is just starting trouble. Palliotte stands up, she gets in his face by standing in front of him nose to nose. Trouble maker. Palliotte gives her the fake head but, barely touched her. She slaps palliotte. Palliotte does nothing. So she slaps him again. Fucking trouble maker. Palliotte after being called a cheap charlie and having endured her ranting and being slapped two times retaliates by doing nothing. Our girl slaps him a third time. Fucking useless cunt trouble maker. When palliotte responded by doing... nothing, the girl picked up a mug and smashed it on palliotte's face. So lets see. Punters were nice enough to buy her a lady drink. So naturally she starts trouble by calling one of them a cheap charlie. Why? Because she is a fucking trouble maker. The incident ended up with her smashing the punter's face with a mug. Considering how the incident started and how it ended can anyone with a rational view of the girls conclude that this girl is anything other than a low life piece of garbage whom intentionally and with premeditation started and finished the whole fucked up incident? Troublemakers deserve a good thrashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Catalyst said:If you step back and think about it, if you both just walk out the door and go home you are probably going back to a more affluent and comfortable life than her and in that sense you "win". I would be surprised if most bargirls don't see it that way, especially after you have been tossing around money in front of everyone. It's something I usually try to be a little sensitive about. On the other hand, if someone is a little nasty, insults you, or calls you a Cheap Charlie you can use it to your advantage by just laughing or walking away from them and knowing that they will probably think that you got the best of them. If you want to really rub it in and give her a hard time and are willing to spend a bit of money, buy another round of drinks for the other girls but not for her. If she still makes a scene then cancel all the drink orders, leave, and let the other girls get pissed at her. But that would really be going out of your way to be vengeful, and maybe the other girls wouldn't go along with it; I would be happy with just laughing it off. See, it seems to me, some guys are hell bent on playing games here...first sign of trouble, leave, or call the mamasan over, and have her remove the trouble. Simple as that. All this business about how to really get back at her just adds to the trouble. You wouldn't play games like that in Farang land with the bar staff, so don't do it here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 MaiLuk Wrote: "...The girl was nothing more than a piece of shit trouble maker... is at least a pain, maybe even a dumbshit trouble maker...the girl does not care if she gets these punters in a bad mood...Basically she does not give a fuck. About the punters. And about the other girls...The girl just wants to make trouble...our girl who wants to make trouble...he gives palliotte the finger. She starts talking more trash. She won't give it a rest. Third clue that she is just starting trouble...she gets in his face by standing in front of him nose to nose. Trouble maker...She slaps palliotte...she slaps him again. Fucking trouble maker...Our girl slaps him a third time. Fucking useless cunt trouble maker...the girl picked up a mug and smashed it on palliotte's face...So naturally she starts trouble by calling one of them a cheap charlie. Why? Because she is a fucking trouble maker...The incident ended up with her smashing the punter's face with a mug. Considering how the incident started and how it ended can anyone with a rational view of the girls conclude that this girl is anything other than a low life piece of garbage whom intentionally and with premeditation started and finished the whole fucked up incident...?" And yet, Palloite and you as well, other etc...will pay thousands of dollars to go half way around the world, to go into a place where someone like this works...? What does that say about you? Him? Me? Us? If I may quote the great Will Rogers "...if you get in trouble 10,000 miles from home it might have been because you were looking for it..." I will suggest, plain and simple, that A) the story is NOT 100% as told to us (I am sure it is not) or Palliote was out of his league here, in an invironment he didn't understand...he was unable to realize that he was not reading the situation, and seeing it was escalating. Or a combination of both. If as you say, Palliote was 100% innocent here, I say he wasn't at all, then he was out of his element. Clearly, He could have avoided the whole mess, by either leaving the bar, and or telling the mamasan the girl was causing trouble. Instead, He contiued to allow it to esculate, this girl was, you claim, looking for a fight, what did he do? he escalated it, "Fuck you!" gets up, gets in her face, a "light accidental headbutt" from a punter 3 times the size of the girl, is not to her a light hit...maybe it hurt her... Maybe she was fucked up, maybe he was...but instead, of reading the situation, and knowing that this was a problem, he confronted what you claim is a mad woman, obviously hell bent on a fight...so why give it to her? Why stand there and let her hit him...? he was in effect, telling her he wanted a fight, daring her to take her best shot...still, neither he nor his friend called the mamasan... My guess is, Palliote is not 100% innocent here, and there is more to the story than we are told...I'll ask it again, if this woman was so horrible, and truely worthy of the vile/vulgar namesyou called her, what was an "innocent tourist" doing in such an establishment where such women are known to frequent, in a town such as Pattaya? And what does that tell you about the "innocent tourist?" MaiLuk Wrote: "...Troublemakers deserve a good thrashing..." Yes, I say he got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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