Violence in Living Doll

[Guest]

I agree with this. And the conclusion I have drawn after living here for more than 10 years is that when a dispute arises, the merits of the parties' respective positions count less here than do other considerations.

 

One of those considerations is the nationalities of the disputants; Thais will generally be favored. But to take it a step further, in a dispute between a reasonably well dressed English speaking and coherent Caucasian Northern American or Englishman and an Middle Eastern or Nigerian, the former will generally be given the benefit of any doubts.

 

Getting back to the original post, I agree that whatever Palliote did was not a smart move irrespective of who was right and who was wrong. I used to think that telling abusive BGs in a very calm, but direct, manner that they were acting impolitely in a slightly exaggerated central Thai dialect was a fair, clever and safe response, but not anymore. Well, I still think it is fair, but not so clever or safe given the possible consequences.

 

At the end of the day, I think all of this highlights the fact that Thailand is not the blissful Buddhist paradise of peace that some here make it out to be.

[lembeh]

 

 

Sorry OH, but you are reaching here to make a point.

 

As I said, I *know* (in person) Palliote. I have known him for a while, and although its for him to give the information or not, I would definately *not* characterize him as a "tourist" or some one "out of their element". He is (over the times I have known him) *not* the sort to "throw his weight about" (being of a size with me, you will know what I mean) .

 

The times I have been with him, he has certainly not shown any "heavy" attitude to the girls, and indeed quite the opposite, he strikes me as a soft touch (sorry P!)

 

He has taken more than a fair bit of stick on this board (and you will note in fairly good humour), he did a dumb thing (which he admits) which span wildly out of control on him. It can happen to all of us.

 

If you want, you can keep making the point that he is some "rage filled moron" (to paraphrase), but that is simply NOT the truth. In many ways, its even more scary. A decent guy makes a bad call, and ends up getting stiches for it. It *can* happen to you on a bad day.

-j-

[Old Hippie]

"...Sorry OH, but you are reaching here to make a point.."

 

Not at all. True,Idon't know the guy, but I do know punters. I don't buy the story as presented, sorry, I just don't. My call, based on the info he provided.

 

"...being of a size with me, you will know what I mean.."

 

I believe I had the privilidge of meeting you not to long ago. I seem to recall you had a scholarly appearance, intellectual and distinguished...handsome...er ah back to the arguement...! Pointtaken, but still bigger than the Thai girl in question I assume...

 

"...I would definately *not* characterize him as a "tourist" or some one "out of their element"..."

 

Then he should have known better, which thus proves my point.

 

"...he did a dumb thing (which he admits) which span wildly out of control on him..."

 

Yes, HE DID IT, which is why I have no sympathy for him.

 

"...It can happen to all of us..."

 

Yes, I have to agree 100% with you here. I pissed off an emotional Thai girl on the street (I used to date her) and she tossed a bowl of Kway Teow at me...my fault, I had made her lose a bit of face, and was an arrogant prick about it...I am usually a nice guy as well...this was one time I wasn't.

 

"...If you want, you can keep making the point that he is some "rage filled moron" (to paraphrase)..."

 

Not saying that at all, I am simply saying he fucked up all the way around, should have handled it differently, and got taught a valuable lesson. My guess is, he will not handle the same type situation the same way again.

 

"... A decent guy makes a bad call, and ends up getting stiches for it..."

 

I don't buy the 100% innocent slant here, sorry. A decent guy doesn't confront girls and head butt them.

 

"... It *can* happen to you on a bad day..."

 

As we agreed on that before. And as I said, when it happened to me, I was far from innocent. Did I deserve to get scalded with soup? to her yes, in her Thai girl mind, it fit (SHEwasn't a BG btw, proves they lose it in all walks...). To me, yeah, I had something comming for the way I treated her in front of her friend and coworkers...you decide what was a fair come uppence...

 

The bottom line is, there is her side of the story, and his side of the story...then there is the truth.

[Guest lazyphil]

If you 'pretend' head butt someone (and connect) expect to get a reaction anywhere in the world, if i reacted like the OP everytime I got called cheap in LOS, I'd be in a coma or dead.....plenty of bars in los to move on, jesus h christ she only called him cheap, hardly warrants what he said and did, i just say 'i know' and smile if i get called cheap....anyway i'm just a naive tourist, what do we know among hard bitten old hacks lol!....btw, would the OP shout the odds at a thai taxi driver if he called him cheap for not giving a tip and pretend headbutt him, i highly doubt it!!

[Old Hippie]

Exactly, it seems to me this guy only let go that far, and got up on her, headbutted, simply because he thought he'd get away with it, I seriously doubt he'd have pulled that with a guy. Or even a farang woman in his own country.

[Guest]

don't buy the story as presented, sorry, I just don't.

I have suggestion: perhaps it doesn't matter if we buy or don't buy the story, because, perhaps, there is an altogether more fundamental point here. And that point is this: with BGs, things can go very bad very quickly and become very dangerous.

 

We have seen other stories about other events here before. Perhaps they are all biased, but they are consistent on a few themes. One of those themes is the unpredictability of the bar scene. How events can spiral dramatically from a misunderstanding or little remark into a dangerous and sometimes lethal encounter.

 

To outsiders, I know Thailand must seem particularly placid and Thais, even in the bars, ever so polite and nice. But notice the number of stories here about violence against Farangs and unbelievable "suicides". And increased press reports of rapes and muders. The event described here happened in a bar, but it does tie in with these other events even if you don't buy the story (I am sure there is more to it) because it illustrates how quickly things can change. Even if the OP bears some, most or all of the blame, the rapid and unpredicatable escalation of events is remarkable.

 

I know from personal experience that events here can change radidly and unpredicatably, and that Farangs often cannot tell when it is coming. Maybe I am particuarly dense, but after more than ten years living here, I still cannot tell. I used to tell abusive BGs they are acting impolitely. Now I don't even risk doing that because the response can be so unpredictable and potentially lethal.

[shygye]

What the OP did, cussing and then headbutting (accidentally), would lead to a fight in LA, Paris, London, or Sydney much less in a Pattaya gogo.

 

WTF would anyone get into a shouting match with a BG? Why respond to a BG that says something stupid? Just ignore her or call over the mamasan to remove the girl.

[Old Hippie]

Gadflywrote: "... fundamental point here. And that point is this: with BGs, things can go very bad very quickly and become very dangerous..."

 

So, knowing this, you'd be a fool to start with, or get into an arguement with any of them right? Especially a physical one. But I wouldn't limit it to just Bar girls, from my experience Thais in Generel, Women specifically, can react violently when threatened or made to lose face.

[longwoodguy74]

like i said earlier, i think we all realize - including Pailliote - that errors of judgement were made, but i'll take josh_ingu's word on Pailliote being a stand up kinda guy.

 

we all have those days and moments when we do things in the heat of the moment. throw alcohol and cultural/language barriers into the mix and i'm often amazed that these kinda things don't happen more often.

 

IMHO, Gadfly1 is right on the money:

 

"perhaps it doesn't matter if we buy or don't buy the story, because, perhaps, there is an altogether more fundamental point here. And that point is this: with BGs, things can go very bad very quickly and become very dangerous."

 

i think that, for me personally, one of the reasons that i enjoy thailand and similar places so much is that they do possess a certain degree of unpredictability. while i certainly don't recommend or even support the actions of either the BG or, to a lesser extent, Pailliote, i do appreciate the generally free-wheeling environment in which it occurred. if thailand ever became the sort of over-sanitized, regulated, corporate dominated type of environment that exists in many places in the west, it'd likely lose a lot of its appeal to me. don't get me wrong, i'm not some mountain dew swilling "extreme" type of idiot, i just appreciate a place that is a bit rough around the edges... sure i'll get flamed for that!

 

Cheers!

[gummigut]

bust1 said:

I have absolutely no compassion for any man who hits a woman...

 

You just haven't met the right woman!

 

Given the right situation, I'd have no hesitations. Happened once and I hope it'll never happen again.

 

Best thing is just to never put yourself in that type of situation, though I see farangs doing it all the time with their choice of 'girlfriends'!

 

Sure makes for some nice drama and nice reading though!!!

 

 

As for this situation, I don't think any of it was warranted. He shouldn't have done what he did, but she was way over the top.

 

When I first moved here, I was more 'acceptable' about insults from the girls in the bar. Now I'm more adament about proper treatment. You don't like me, no problem, you don't have to talk to me. But there is no reason to be insulting.

 

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