Kiwi Murdered in Pattaya - Disturbing Story

[Zorro]

torrenova said:

Sure the story "smells kinda funny" because it is utter crap. I know this from the inside out, not what was written in the papers or put up on the Pattaya TV.

 

I'm not saying all parties here are smelling of roses but the guy who ended up dead was not the nice fella which comes across. A con man ? perhaps, liar ? certainly and a few other things to boot.

 

chuckwoww

 

I wasn't intentionally replying to your post just the quick reply route. Sorry.

 

Would you care to shed a little more light on the situation?

 

From experience I take anything in the papers with a grain of salt.

I have been involved in situations in the west where the incidents were reported in the papers and what actually happened and what was reported bore very little resemblance to the truth.

Too many news stories are fabricated rubbish from drunkard journalists trying to big note themselves and of course sensationalise events to sell their copy.

 

The truth is out there but where?

[zzzz]

Zorro said:

torrenova said:

Sure the story "smells kinda funny" because it is utter crap. I know this from the inside out, not what was written in the papers or put up on the Pattaya TV.

 

I'm not saying all parties here are smelling of roses but the guy who ended up dead was not the nice fella which comes across. A con man ? perhaps, liar ? certainly and a few other things to boot.

 

chuckwoww

 

I wasn't intentionally replying to your post just the quick reply route. Sorry.

 

Would you care to shed a little more light on the situation?

 

From experience I take anything in the papers with a grain of salt.

I have been involved in situations in the west where the incidents were reported in the papers and what actually happened and what was reported bore very little resemblance to the truth.

Too many news stories are fabricated rubbish from drunkard journalists trying to big note themselves and of course sensationalise events to sell their copy.

 

The truth is out there but where?

 

It appears that the motive for the killing was money. You got the prosecution version of what happened and the accused version. It's up to the court to make a decision as to the crime. torrenova appears to be speaking for the accused.

[Guest]

Zorro said:

Would you care to shed a little more light on the situation?

Zorro raises a good point. T, you seem to have a tremendous wealth of inside information about the situation and strong views on the matter:

Sorry but that story is a load of crap. I personally know the girl in question and have known her, her best friend and her friend's boyfriend for a number of years now.

 

Where is the drug export business mentioned ? Where is the hooking her onto substances ? Using her account to launder the money ? He is on video in banks withdrawing money. What about the steroids ?

 

She didn't have 2 boyfriends, nor a current Thai boyfriend.

You apparently know the suspect and her friends personally, so don?t take this personally, but how do you know there was a drug exporting business, that he hooked her into ?substances? (what substances?), that he used her bank account to launder money? Those are pretty strong claims. And how do you know how many boyfriends she had?

 

The case against her seems to be built on some rather damning evidence, much of it documented from what I would consider reliable third party sources. For example, a property sale yielding 2 million Baht, 500,000 Baht of those funds going into her bank account, her loan application for a house, and approval of that loan application. These are all matters where, according to the press at least, there are bank documents to back up these facts. Are these records - from multiple sources (land office, banks, etc.) - all forgeries?

 

The fact that she had his car when he was murdered is also pretty easy to establish and very damning ? it made him a much easier target for a drive by shooting. Is the picture of her in bed with the guy they say was her Thai boyfriend on Thai TV a fake? What about the eye witness accounts from other Thais that knew her confirming the relationship? They could be lying, but I would want to know why.

 

These facts, taken together, are pretty damning. Where, specifically, have the press and authorities presented false or misleading evidence? I am an outsider to all of this, and when I look at the facts that have set out before me, well, it looks pretty damning.

 

I haven?t heard or seen anything in the English or Thai press supporting the claims you raise about the Farang getting her hooked on ?substances? or using her bank account to launder money. After claiming that he was laundering money, you mention a video tape of a guy withdrawing money from a bank. Is that the evidence of money laundering?

 

Seriously, I really would like to hear the other side. And I?d like to see what evidence there is to support that other side, because the evidence against her seems pretty strong to me. No offense, but your claims, standing by themselves, aren't particularly convincing unless you provide more detail and something to back them up with. Are there big gaps in the picture that everyone is missing? If so, fill them in for us. You may very well be right, and if you are, the record should be set straight fast.

 

If she is really innocent, and she is getting railroaded, this information should be made available to the press (Thai and international) and authorities as soon as possible, because the picture I am seeing is very different than the one you are painting. She suffers if you are right and the evidence supporting your claims are not presented to the authorities and press now.

[pe7e]

This is just a personal opinion, since I don't know any of the parties involved, but reading a variety of press reports from both Pattaya and New Zealand. It would appear Mr Millar was a former doorman (bouncer) and a convicted drug dealer (steriods) back in NZ (confirmed by NZ embassy according to Pattaya city news). I think it quite likley he was also a user of steroids given his physique. It is being widley reported and not denied that the girl was involved in the illegal export of drugs, or more to the point, her bank account and name were. If this is shown to be true, and I expect it will, it doesn't need much imagination to see who was behind it, does it? I think far from being the nice quiet guy some are portraying him as, IMO he was more likley a manipulative criminal thug. Having said that, I don't think it gives anyone the excuse to execute him. It certainly looks like his GF is well and truly implicated in his murder, I find it hard to accept she has been railroaded by the cops. I'm also sure there's more revelations yet to be made, probably concerning his aquaintances IMO.

[chuckwoww]

IF it turns out that good old Steve was screwing around and using this girl as a pawn in a steroid business my guess is she will walk...minus the money.

[SingaporeSteve]

Gladfly - You seem to be missing the point about how police, at least in Pattaya seem to handle these things. My take is simple.

 

1. They already knew of this guy and probably had a fair idea of what he is up to or at least has been up to. If they did not know him, seems amazing how they have built up such a comprehensive picture in such a short time - I truly believe they have a strong handle on what really goes on in this town, they may allow people a lot of rope with which to hang themselves and can use this to pull people in, but they are pretty tolerant, providing things are below the surface - if they were so inclined, so they could immediately arrest and deport at least 500 people for working without permits, but they choose not to - but be sure they know who they are.

 

2. They believe the girl is behind the murder.

 

They will not be further publicising any negative factors about this case and these people as it potentially casts them in the bad light - (i.e if they knew about it, why have they not done anything sooner in terms of arresting him) + what good will it do - the guy is dead and his family is in town and making some very polite gestures to the head of the police force.

 

I really believe that the girl will be found guilty and the case will be closed with the unofficial view that both were bad people and they have been dealt with - no further negative PR required and case closed with her conviction for murder.

 

If the car is in her name, it will remain with her and this 500,000 baht will also probably remain with her. It does not matter how it was put there - the guy is dead - nothing is going to change that - therefore its a fruitless excercise in trying to recover it - after all who are the police going to give the money to, should they be able to get it back? They may go through an excercise where she uses the money to 'help' reduce her sentence - however I believe that what will happen is that this will take place over 5 years, after which she will really be no further ahead in the game, have spent all the money and still be behind bars.

 

Cheers

[Zorro]

SingaporeSteve said:

Gladfly - You seem to be missing the point about how police, at least in Pattaya seem to handle these things. My take is simple.

 

1. They already knew of this guy and probably had a fair idea of what he is up to or at least has been up to. If they did not know him, seems amazing how they have built up such a comprehensive picture in such a short time - I truly believe they have a strong handle on what really goes on in this town, they may allow people a lot of rope with which to hang themselves and can use this to pull people in, but they are pretty tolerant, providing things are below the surface - if they were so inclined, so they could immediately arrest and deport at least 500 people for working without permits, but they choose not to - but be sure they know who they are.

 

2. They believe the girl is behind the murder.

 

They will not be further publicising any negative factors about this case and these people as it potentially casts them in the bad light - (i.e if they knew about it, why have they not done anything sooner in terms of arresting him) + what good will it do - the guy is dead and his family is in town and making some very polite gestures to the head of the police force.

 

I really believe that the girl will be found guilty and the case will be closed with the unofficial view that both were bad people and they have been dealt with - no further negative PR required and case closed with her conviction for murder.

 

If the car is in her name, it will remain with her and this 500,000 baht will also probably remain with her. It does not matter how it was put there - the guy is dead - nothing is going to change that - therefore its a fruitless excercise in trying to recover it - after all who are the police going to give the money to, should they be able to get it back? They may go through an excercise where she uses the money to 'help' reduce her sentence - however I believe that what will happen is that this will take place over 5 years, after which she will really be no further ahead in the game, have spent all the money and still be behind bars.

 

Cheers

 

SS

You raise some interesting points here.

 

I was speaking to a couple of Thai locals here yesterday and they were adamant that he was involved in the local mafia (whatever that happens to mean).

Basically they were saying that he was no clean skin.

So that probably fits quite nicely with your theory.

 

There was an interesting case on the local news yesterday where a German national was arrested for live video streaming of sex shows to outside countries. Apparently he had been living in Thailand for 10 years and he had obvioulsy been doing this for a while as his webiste was the most popular in Germany. It beggars belief that the local cops didn't know what he was up to considering he was doing it for quite a long time. So again this does seem to fit very nicely with SS's theory about the police knowing what is going on and probably even profiting of it but sooner or later someone or maybe a govt organisation with a lot of pull gets wind of something and then the police decide it is politic to take action.

[..]

SingaporeSteve said:

1. They already knew of this guy and probably had a fair idea of what he is up to or at least has been up to. If they did not know him, seems amazing how they have built up such a comprehensive picture in such a short time - I truly believe they have a strong handle on what really goes on in this town, they may allow people a lot of rope with which to hang themselves and can use this to pull people in, but they are pretty tolerant, providing things are below the surface - if they were so inclined, so they could immediately arrest and deport at least 500 people for working without permits, but they choose not to - but be sure they know who they are.

Well said. That is my take on life in general in LoS, not just Pattaya. It is also why I like it here -- they treat people like adults and do not bother with prosecuting victimless crimes. As I have said before, Thailand is the closest thing the world has to a functional anarchy. The coppers are just there to reign it in when it gets disfunctional (outta control).

 

The problem arises when a farang, who is used to places with "law & order" (some may say, "used to a nanny state") does not get the fact that he has responsibility for his own actions here and that nobody will bail him out if the going gets rough or even if he simply makes a mistake in judgement. Law of the jungle and all that. Some folks just cannot handle it. Some folks, like me, grew up in places like that and it comes second nature.

 

Cheers,

SD

[Guest]

Gladfly - You seem to be missing the point about how police, at least in Pattaya seem to handle these things. My take is simple.

Since I wasn't making a "point about how [the] police in Pattaya seem to handle these things", your comment - at least as a response to my post - makes no sense whatsoever. It's sort of like me making a comment about the current price of beer in NEP, and you responding by saying that I am totally missing the point about freeway taffic in LA, and then holding forth, in detail, about freeway traffic in LA.

 

I was commenting on the publicly available evidence indicating the girl is guilty, the absence of anything ? at least in the news - to support Torr?s claims about the girl's innocence and the fact that, if Torr is right about the girl, that evidence should come out quick. I don?t pretend to know how the Pattaya police work.

 

But let me do the courtesy of responding to your insights into how the Pattaya police force operates rather than, say, commenting on the Denver school system. Because I honestly don't know how they work, I am not going to dispute your claim or pat you on the back and say you are right (that Farang must have been a bad man and the police knew it too -they know everything - but they just look the other way or go off on some self serving tangent about the law of the jungle), but instead do the sensible thing ask you what evidence you have to back up your claims?

 

You are making some pretty strong statements, and it is perfectly reasonable for me to ask for your proof.

 

In Bangkok I am pretty sure the MiB know which bars are showing and which are not and when they close - although some here are convinced they need this website to figure that out - but I have my doubts about how much they know about the individual lives of Farangs. The former is a mild statement of the obvious while the latter is a bold statement where proof should be required. And so, my question to you (which, surprise, is actually is related to your comment) is this: what do you have to back-up your claims about how the Pattaya police work?

 

I am not saying that your in-depth knowledge of the Pattaya police and how they operate is wrong. You may be absolutely right. I am just asking how a dunce like me can determine whether you are right or just talking through your hat.

 

I am professional agnostic. So I have to ask: what evidence can you present to support your claim that this guy was up to anything (illegal) and the police knew it but looked the other way? I am willing to be convinced, but so far all I have heard is alot of pontificating about how this guy was up to no good, but nothing to back this up. Where's the beef?

 

And more to the point, what is the relevance of this beef to his murder?

[chuckwoww]

If I may interject here Gadfly you seem to have no trouble accepting a piece on Stickman's website that looks, to me, like it was put together by Steve's pals down at the gym.