Bangkoktraveler Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Suadam, you and CB both imply that when something like this happens, that it is always the falang who is responsible and caused their own death, not the Thai person. In this case, I can not see how anybody can draw a final conclusion with so few facts. And the conclusions always seem to side with the Thais. This issue of it always being the falangs fault is an issue I can not buy. The person may contribute to the problem but is not responsible for the final death jab. AA and other 12 step programs pound this into the heads of its members but those people attend those meeting because they do have serious issues which need to be addressed. But what about the rest of us? If we are not wise to such matters, then you imply we are stupid. But in order to get wise to such matters, we either learn them thru the school of hard knocks or learn from reading or talking with others. [color:"blue"]But if we do fall victim, we still should be considered as a victim and the person committing the crime should be looked upon as the criminal they rightfully are. [color:"black"] Too much is put on the Buddhist belief of cause and effect. If you get robbed it is automatically assumed you did something wrong to cause the problem, either in this life time or in a past life. There might be some truth to that but it is not a Golden rule. I have a store and shoplifters steal from me. Probably the first thing you will say is I am stupid because I do not have a security system, blah, blah, blah. Truth of the matter is, as far as I know, all stores have stealing problems. For the size of store I have, my losses are less then the industry standard and less then what my neighbors have experienced. But yet, you probably will say it is still my fault. And that is where the problem is. You and CB never address the issue that when Thais steal, rob, murder, etc. that they have to be responsible for the crimes they commit. Yes, some falangs live in a dream world when they come to Thailand because they are not aware of how dangerous it can get but I feel some falangs are in a dream world when they imply Thais never do anything wrong, or when they do, they were justified in doing what they do. Mai pen rai too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 "..I'd guess...speculate..." and assume. Always cracks me up when amateur "detectives"/wannabe judges comment on newspaper articles. An axiom of investigative work is to NEVER, EVER "guess, speculate, or assume" and draw any conclusions from those guesses, speculations, or assumptions. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzz Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Here is some additional info. Apparently the victim had been teaching in LOS for 2 years and was protecting his GF when he was stabbed to death: A New Zealander killed in Bangkok once trained to be a priest and was trying to protect his girlfriend when he was stabbed to death in his 10th-floor flat. The death of Leonard Healey, 32, has shattered his Temuka father, who learnt of the murder through the media. "It can't be true," Pat Healey said yesterday as he sat beside a graduation photo of his son, who went to Thailand to teach English and to earn money to pay off his student loan. He knew nothing of the circumstances of his son's death, and it grieved him that he learned of the fatal stabbing only when contacted by a journalist. "Oh, God, my heart just dropped," he said. At first he could not take it in. He called the Timaru police. They did not know, and then he checked Teletext. There it was: Leonard Timothy Healey reportedly stabbed in a 10th-floor Bangkok flat by a friend of his girlfriend. At one point, Healey was going to be a priest, and he attended Holy Cross College in Mosgiel. He decided against it and switched to teaching, going to university and teachers' college. He had been in Bangkok for two years. "The world is full of violence. An innocent life has been taken away," Pat Healey said. "I can't believe he's gone. It must be a joke." Thai police captain Thanaphat Sookmee, who is in charge of the investigation into the death, told The Press that Healey was stabbed seven times after a long night of heavy drinking as he sought to protect his girlfriend. Photos from the Thai media show emergency staff crouched next to Healey's body, lying bloodied by the bed in his apartment, where he had been watching a World Cup soccer match. Above the bed, a poster of Lake Hayes, in Central Otago, is prominently displayed. An arrest warrant has been issued for Winai Saisudjai, 29, a friend of Healey's 19-year-old girlfriend, Jitladda Dejyosdee. Police said Dejyosdee was an employee of PA Tower apartments, where Healey lived. Sookmee said she had been drinking in the restaurant of the building with the suspect on Sunday. "She called Mr Healey at about 6pm and invited him down to join them drinking. After midnight, she was so drunk she could not stand up properly, so they all went up to watch the football match in Mr Healey's room," he said. "When it was time to go home, Jitladda didn't want to go home at the same time as (Saisudjai) because he was trying to sleep with her. "Jitladda and Healey went into the bathroom to discuss this and once they came out, Mr Healey told (Saisudjai) to leave, but he insisted to have her go with him, so Mr Healey pulled her away. "They were fighting, and Mr Healey was stabbed seven times and died." The Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Wellington said it was too early to know when Healey's body might be released to the family. "Our embassy is in touch with the Thai police about the progress of the investigation, but there has been no arrest," a spokesman said. The New Zealand police liaison officer in Bangkok, Mike Bush, declined to comment. He is due to have a meeting with Thai police today. Healey's death follows two high-profile murders of foreigners in Thailand. Last month, an Australian nurse died after she was shot in the neck in a drive-by shooting at a crowded bar in the Thai-Burma railway town of Kanchanburi. Thai police and Australian Embassy officials believe she was an innocent victim of a long-running local vendetta. Thailand's coastal areas have suffered a drop in tourist numbers since the murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton on the island of Koh Samui on January 1 this year. Two fishermen were sentenced to death for the rape and murder of the 21-year-old British backpacker. Source: Stuff.co.nz - 04 July 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Sounds to me that it wasn't the falangs fault. That's my 2 baht on this. When I was attacked by 4 men with machates who wanted to rob me, I got some of the same shit. Even though another American got attacked in the same area I was, he was left on the street with a machete cut to the top of his head and a cut to both sides of his throat, some would think it was our fault. It was the go**d Damn fu**king thieves fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 BKKtravelor, You seem to contradict yourself in your recent posting. I have never said that it isn't the thai person's fault, he is innocent of the act of a crime, he shouldn't be prosecuted for his actions. I have stated repeatedly he committed the crime. But in these types of cases, it takes two to tangle unlike say where that aussie nurse was sitting in a bar and gets shot - wrong place wrong time and it could have been the person next to her just as easily... But then you say we say "that is is always the falang is responsible and caused his own death" soon followed by your own words "the person may contribute to the problem...." No, i have never said "the falang is always the one is responsible..." Please see the aussie nurse case above. I have said it is case by case in determining how much did the falang put himself in the position through poor decision-making, associations with the wrong type of people, anger management, etc of a bad outcome... Lets discuss your comment "what about the rest of us?" Very valid comment and this is where the posters who have differences with what i say and probably could it be these posters whose lifestyle and behaviors mimic that of the guys who are getting bumped off left and right these days in LOS???? So you guys who internalize these cases to "could it happen to me?' Yeah, why not? If you guys make the same stupid behaviors, choices, inappropriate reactions to situations, then you are putting yourself in the same situations... It is called individual accountability and many of you just don't seem or want to accept it. You just seem to want to live by your cultural/home rules in a country very different than your own and operate with whole different set of expectations and norms... You don't think there is repressed anger by thais especially by uneducated and ignorant thais of lower socio-econ classes towards falangs and our rich societies in general? So what do you do? This NZ guy invites a hotel clerk (only info so far) who has been drinking for given what was reported 6 hours earlier into his place to do what? more drinking of course and share in some laughs. I bet this NZ guy's background and that of the thai guy come from two different worlds who share nothing in common. Well, maybe the girl but we don't know that! So what is the best remedy to unleash repressed anger? alcohol and women.. So here is now we have established he was her friend at least. Doesn't say much but does link him to her. Still doesn't rule out sexual relations or his desire to have sexual relations with her. Who do you think she share more in common and the hardships of life with? the falang or now established her drinking buddy? He was Her friend and that means a lot to this outcome... Whe it comes down to it, birds of a feather stick together. So now comes in his impared mind, a falang who invites him in into his place to do what thais love to do, drink more alcohol and top it off by parading his GF in front of him... So now in a drunk state, he acts upon all those days of resentment and repressed anger of seeing this chick pass through this building to a "rich" image falang who again i will state who share probably nothing in common... That is why this falang and many more in the future will continue to contribute to their own demise... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinalblue Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Did anyone pick up on the line that this new zealander came to thailand to pay off his student loans? yeah right... Since LOS is one of the worst countries to make money as an english teacher let alone his choice of how to pay off debt. This excuse is what falangs tell their parents and friends on why they come to Thailand. It is along the same lines of coming for the religion, the food, the beaches, the culture. learning muay thai and whatever other stupied slogan that westerners are willing buy back home.... He came for the lifestyle if not for the nightlife directly and not to pay off his loan. He must have been on the 30 year re-payment plan. I wonder if they will garnish his high wages and now who pays off that loan? His parents? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 << who went to Thailand to teach English and to earn money to pay off his student loan. >> Teaching in Thailand ... what a WONDERFUL way to make lots of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 CB I was about to post the same but you beat me too it! Hmmmm - obviously no one knew he wasn't making good $ back in NZ. Same as the Canadian, he claimed to work for CNN but CNN have no idea who he was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 You bet me to it, CB. Good to know you caught that too. Probably the average pay for teaching primary and secondary school is 35,000 baht a month -- enough to live on but with nothing left over. Also, the GF was getting sh*tfaced with the Thai guy before going to the victim's room. Hardly sounds like a shrinking violet type ... but why was the Thai bunghole even carrying a knife? The Thais I know don't normally go around armed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 CB- The following it is enough and makes totally makes your point : "If you guys make the same stupid behaviors, choices, inappropriate reactions to situations, then you are putting yourself in the same situations...It is called individual accountability and many of you just don't seem or want to accept it. " Being an even handed person I can only say that this is the bottom line in many stupid circumstances. No ...its not the Farangs FAULT but he sure was not looking at the situation with any care or FORESIGHT!!I mean he was with a 19 year old Thai girl and some Thai man he does not probably know and they are getting dead drunk...and then the Thai guy lets it be known he wants to bed the girl...not a good scenario... The whole thing shoudl have been cut off wayyy before that point ... But the Thai guy is a still a fucking deranged whacko .. Ok fellows let it rest... The 4th was my B- day and eys incognito that was me with Ms Super deluxe at the bash... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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