Ladyboy's are fags

[Central Scrutinizer]

So clothes make the man here? No. I told the story before about a guy here in SFO' date=' who was fucking a Filipino lady boy here in SFO, carried on with him for about a year, "real relationship" as he used to say. One day, the Lady boy went to see him in men's clothes, the guy freaked out, beat him senseless, all the while denying he was gay, and calling the lady boy a "fag."

[/quote']

 

Totally. An unconvincing queer acting faggot is just that. A 'proper' Thai ladyboy however can be totally hot, a superwoman straight out of a Marvel comic book or Japanese manga fantasy girl, but then for real.

 

I was at Big C the other day in their beer garden, and they usually provide some light entertainment there to go with your tower of Leo. First there were these 8 year old girls all dolled up in feaux-traditional costume dancing to Nong Mind-esque pop tunes. I already found that a bit odd to be doing in front of beer drinking uncles.

 

But then the next item was the runner-up to the Miss Tiffany Universe pageant, who did some interviews and quiz questions where people could win random merchandise from whatever the beer company was that sponsored the event. Then people could have their picture taken together with the girl ('girl', for lack of a better term) Nong Bell, was her name, and unlike with the dancing kids earlier, ALL the beer drinking dudes were GLUED to her presence. I'm not very good at telepathy, but the overwhelming communal thought wave was "Would I?" You bet they would.

 

The Lovely Nong Bell

 

Hmm.. inserting an image doesn't work.. Link then: Nong Bell

 

Other contestants: http://www.misstiffanyuniverse.com/contestants.php and http://www.misstiffanyuniverse.com/contestants2.php

 

Which one would you pick?

 

 

 

 

 

WLL,

 

"Which one would you pick?"

 

None of them, as I know they are not women and I am not homosexual or bi-sexual. Are some of them beautiful, sexy, and feminine looking? Certainly, it's an illusion, and some of them are very good at creating that illusion through surgery, hormone therapy, mannerisms, dress, behavior, etc. And I know some of them truly believe they are a woman, but that does not make them truly a woman. It's a well performed act and illusion, not reality.

 

Which one would you choose?

 

Cent

 

p.s. And please believe me when I say I could care less what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. Whatever floats your boat, and uses or harms no child or dumb animal.

[Wallenda]

Some off-base comments above...

 

1. In gay couples, it's pretty normal that one is more masculine and the other more feminine. We wouldn't say the more masculine one isn't gay because he wants to be with a guy who behaves more like a woman. Same goes for lesbians. The defining factor in both is which gender they prefer, and after that it's all just a matter of taste, which varies for them just like it does for us.

 

2. Someone above was talking about how katoeys are different from women, over the top, etc. Well, if you think about that, SOME are. What he's not taking into account are the ones that were so convincing that he didn't realize they were katoeys. Myself, like OH, I also lived in San Francisco for 8 yrs... in fact I lived for one year right in the Castro district, one block off the heart of that street and my apartment right across from a drag bar (17th St). I also lived in NYC in the Village years earlier. I doubt there are many people posting here with more experience distinguishing gays in drag or trannies from real women. In SF and NY, I was always much better than my friends at being able to tell which was which (spotting them first, my friends would doubt my eye, and then later figure out I was right). Anyway, I'm pretty damn good at it. But one night a couple years ago, I was outside Nana at closing time. Alone, and not keen on staying that way. Spotted one very hot girl there (you can guess where this story is going) and decided to talk to her. I just asked her name or something like that. She answered "I'm baw" -- that took me aback -- I thought 'you're bored? how can you be bored? I just started talking to you.' Seeing the confused look on my face she repeated more clearly "I'm BOY". Aaah. Felt a bit stupid, and definitely a shocker, first time in my life I got fooled. Or got fooled and was sure I was fooled. The point, though, is that some are certainly good enough that they do trick you, and you just don't realize it. Now some are just as you describe, certainly -- over the top, and different than women in look and behavior. But you have to admit that these are the ones that you notice, and it can't possibly be all of them. And what % are you talking about then? Well, you don't know. You say you can always tell... wrong. You can always tell when you can tell, but when you can't tell, you think you've just seen a real woman.

[Wallenda]

Some off-base comments above...

 

1. In gay couples, it's pretty normal that one is more masculine and the other more feminine. We wouldn't say the more masculine one isn't gay because he wants to be with a guy who behaves more like a woman. Same goes for lesbians. The defining factor in both is which gender they prefer, and after that it's all just a matter of taste, which varies for them just like it does for us.

 

2. Someone above was talking about how katoeys are different from women, over the top, etc. Well, if you think about that, SOME are. What he's not taking into account are the ones that were so convincing that he didn't realize they were katoeys. Myself, like OH, I also lived in San Francisco for 8 yrs... in fact I lived for one year right in the Castro district, one block off the heart of that street and my apartment right across from a drag bar (17th St). I also lived in NYC in the Village years earlier. I doubt there are many people posting here with more experience distinguishing gays in drag or trannies from real women. In SF and NY, I was always much better than my friends at being able to tell which was which (spotting them first, my friends would doubt my eye, and then later figure out I was right). Anyway, I'm pretty damn good at it. But one night a couple years ago, I was outside Nana at closing time. Alone, and not keen on staying that way. Spotted one very hot girl there (you can guess where this story is going) and decided to talk to her. I just asked her name or something like that. She answered "I'm baw" -- that took me aback -- I thought 'you're bored? how can you be bored? I just started talking to you.' Seeing the confused look on my face she repeated more clearly "I'm BOY". Aaah. Felt a bit stupid, and definitely a shocker, first time in my life I got fooled. Or got fooled and was sure I was fooled. The point, though, is that some are certainly good enough that they do trick you, and you just don't realize it. Now some are just as you describe, certainly -- over the top, and different than women in look and behavior. But you have to admit that these are the ones that you notice, and it can't possibly be all of them. And what % are you talking about then? Well, you don't know. You say you can always tell... wrong. You can always tell when you can tell, but when you can't tell, you think you've just seen a real woman.

[Old Hippie]

"...1. In gay couples, it's pretty normal that one is more masculine and the other more feminine. We wouldn't say the more masculine one isn't gay because he wants to be with a guy who behaves more like a woman. Same goes for lesbians. The defining factor in both is which gender they prefer, and after that it's all just a matter of taste, which varies for them just like it does for us..."

 

 

Not entirely true from my experience. I have seen a few couples like this, but also have seen couples where both are just flaming fems, and couples, like my cousin and his partner, where both are extremely masculine (both are retired from the Marine Corps, and served multi tours in Vietnam), you would never figure either one for gay. All depends (as you say) on the individual/couple and what they prefer.

 

 

[whitelotuslane]

Oddly, you failed to address the fact that many of these men (and many lesbians I know) consider Katoey doinkers GAY, not just me and the "other homophobs with underlying issues..."

 

Come on, don't switch off on me like that: Nobody in this whole discussion doubted that katoeys are gay, including yours truly. They're men who are attracted to other men, that's what being gay IS.

 

(They ARE actually attracted to Somchai the Builder.)

 

You are employing the same logic as the guys who pay working whores for sex, then deny they are involved in P4P because "this is my girl friend," or is somehow "different" from what other whore mongers do.

 

That's funny cause I was going to make the same comparison myself, but on the issue of suspending the notion that a ladyboy is actually a dude. I was going to compare that with p4p-involved guys who DO actually manage to suspend the notion that a girl is not screwing them because they're so handsome and desirable.

 

I personnaly find the topic of sexuality very interesting, especially the parts about gender identification. Is it just another "mental illness?" or is it something deeper? maybe Physical?

 

Me too. Mostly though you would only call something an illness when there's something wrong with their well-being. Again, many would say every sex tourist screwing girls for money in Thailand is mentally ill.

 

Let's look at a simple fact here, a guy goes to a psychiatrist, and thinks he is Napoleon, or who ever. The doctor declares him nuts, has him committed, and therapy begins...well hopefully...now assume a guy goes to a psychiatrist and says "I am a woman." Why look at that any differently...?

 

You're right. And indeed Hitler, Stalin and the religious nutters sure don't look at that differently. I'd stay far away from those types of views and allow people the freedom to live their lives the way they want to.

 

many of these trans gender people, pre and post ops, end up committing suicide. Is it because society shuns them? (not around here we don't) or is it because they are just plain mentally fucked up to begin with?

 

Source?

 

One last question to the Katoey doinkers, would you want to see the same katoey in men's clothing?

 

Very few can pull that off and still look feminine. It all hinges on if your response still pushes those 'female sexuality' buttons. Mind, not all WOMEN can pull off dressing in men's clothing (which is rife in the business world in the West), but the ones that DO pull it off I do find stunning, yes. Same applies to short hair; I find women who look good in short hair very attractive; again as 90% of ladyboys need to push as many 'feminine' buttons as possible, few manage to look convincingly with short hair, but the select few that do... Wow.

 

how would you feel knowing you had fucked HIM and NOT HER?

 

Pretty bad. Compare it with guys who go to Eden or The Cave and had God knows What done to them by actual women.. That'd be pretty embarrassing when sober and out in the open as well.

 

[whitelotuslane]

You say you can always tell... wrong. You can always tell when you can tell, but when you can't tell, you think you've just seen a real woman.

 

And then there's a select few that you HONESTLY can only be 50-70% sure either way. For sure some women can look masculine, are a bit taller, etc. 95% of cases it's quite clear which is which, but there remain a number of cases where you honestly can't say for sure. (In my case most of those turn out to be fully female when pressed on the issue)

[Old Hippie]

"... * Old Hippie Said:

 

Oddly, you failed to address the fact that many of these men (and many lesbians I know) consider Katoey doinkers GAY, not just me and the "other homophobs with underlying issues..."

 

 

 

Come on, don't switch off on me like that: Nobody in this whole discussion doubted that katoeys are gay, including yours truly. They're men who are attracted to other men, that's what being gay IS.

 

(They ARE actually attracted to Somchai the Builder.)..."

 

Your statement pretty much proves my point! IF katoeys are gay, and are having sex with men, then the men having sex with them must ALSO be gay! However, Some do argue that Katoeys aren't "really gay." Not me, but some. The question switched to are guys who fuck them gay, and this sparked the current debate. Hence, I am saying gays themselves consider the guy fucking the katoey to be gay...didn't get the Somchai reference.

 

"... * Quote:

 

You are employing the same logic as the guys who pay working whores for sex, then deny they are involved in P4P because "this is my girl friend," or is somehow "different" from what other whore mongers do.

 

 

 

That's funny cause I was going to make the same comparison myself, but on the issue of suspending the notion that a lady boy is actually a dude. I was going to compare that with p4p-involved guys who DO actually manage to suspend the notion that a girl is not screwing them because they're so handsome and desirable..."

 

I have NO delusion these whores are fucking me 100% for the money, I am sure MOST could give a rat's ass about me other than that. Maybe even all of them.

 

"... * Quote:

 

I personnaly find the topic of sexuality very interesting, especially the parts about gender identification. Is it just another "mental illness?" or is it something deeper? maybe Physical?

 

 

 

Me too. Mostly though you would only call something an illness when there's something wrong with their well-being. Again, many would say every sex tourist screwing girls for money in Thailand is mentally ill..."

 

This raises the debate, are gays/trans gender biologically different? does something physical make them gay/"gender confused? Or is it a metal disorder as many claim? what ttruely determines sexual orientation?

 

Some argue there is indeed something wrong with the well being of that person (gender "confused" for lack of a better word). Again, if a guy really thought he was George Washington, and had trouble holding a job etc because of it, then you might think he had a problem...so why not Trans gender types in the same situation? I mean if we consider one deranged about their identity, why not another/all? Just asking, mainly for the purpose of discussion.

 

I will agree, I think there is something off with people, like myself, who travel around the world boinking whores...definitely a social misfit at the least...does affect my quality of life now that I think of it.

 

Just read an interesting article on Tom Arnold. Seems his mother abandoned him at age four. He has NEVER had a relationship last longer than 4 years...I have had similar issues as well...and I do think they all play into why I prefer whoring to a stable relationship...I therefore must be honest and admit I have some sort of problem.

 

 

"... * Quote:

 

Let's look at a simple fact here, a guy goes to a psychiatrist, and thinks he is Napoleon, or who ever. The doctor declares him nuts, has him committed, and therapy begins...well hopefully...now assume a guy goes to a psychiatrist and says "I am a woman." Why look at that any differently...?

 

You're right. And indeed Hitler, Stalin and the religious nutters sure don't look at that differently. I'd stay far away from those types of views and allow people the freedom to live their lives the way they want to..."

 

I and others have not condemed these people at all, and we have stated we didn't care what goes on between consenting adults. The discussion is more on why the guys involved in this simply cannot or will not admit it is what it is...and try to convince others (even other gays) that it is somehow "different." Like the whore buyer who says "...oh no, this is different, it is not the same as paying for a whore... (when in LOS)"

 

I agree, there is an element that does want to basically rid the world of what ever does not fit into their definition of normal.

 

To me, the best way to deal with this is for these "alternative life stylers" to just come out and be open...the more it is out there, the more mainstream it becomes, and the less bullshit these people will have to deal with, takes time, but it does happen...look at segregation/racial ideology and how people have changed? even how gays are very slowly becoming more accepted. This didn't happen by denial and hiding in a closet...

 

 

"... * Quote:

 

many of these trans gender people, pre and post ops, end up committing suicide. Is it because society shuns them? (not around here we don't) or is it because they are just plain mentally fucked up to begin with?

 

 

 

Source?..."

 

Just the various news articles and talk shows...if I can find you hard stats, I will provide, they have been posted here before. I do know of about 5 people who had the procedure done, 3 have committed suicide already, one is very fucked up mentally, and may do it. The other person seems normal for now, but is getting increasingly more worried about aging and how they will look when old, and fears being alone. Someone here did mention something about Thai lady boys and suicide, maybe they have some insight from the Thai side?

 

 

"... * Quote:

 

One last question to the Katoey doinkers, would you want to see the same katoey in men's clothing?

 

 

 

Very few can pull that off and still look feminine. It all hinges on if your response still pushes those 'female sexuality' buttons. Mind, not all WOMEN can pull off dressing in men's clothing (which is rife in the business world in the West), but the ones that DO pull it off I do find stunning, yes. Same applies to short hair; I find women who look good in short hair very attractive; again as 90% of ladyboys need to push as many 'feminine' buttons as possible, few manage to look convincingly with short hair, but the select few that do... Wow.

 

* Quote:

 

how would you feel knowing you had fucked HIM and NOT HER?

 

 

 

Pretty bad. Compare it with guys who go to Eden or The Cave and had God knows What done to them by actual women.. That'd be pretty embarrassing when sober and out in the open as well..."

 

Honest enough answer. I would add, that the guys who like getting fucked in the ass, by a woman, may have some unresolved issues themselves, and may be trying to have a safe passage into gay sex, but trying to deny themselves by using a woman...sort of a happy medium? Again, up to them, and so what as long as consentual and they are happy.

 

I did long ago tell the story of a married guy I work with. We went to BKK on a work trip, he went for the lady boys, pre op only...said he sucked and fucked them, and they sucked and fucked him...he ademently denied it was at all gay, sighting the argument "gays only like men who look like men..." He further added "...what is the difference if a woman fucks you with a strap on, or a katoey does it with his dick, both look like women..." Denial at it's finest I think.

 

Oddly, no one has really addressed the issue of lesbians...again, *IF* gay man only like men who look like men, then what about Lesbians? are they not Lesbian if they like girls in pants and lumber jack shirts?

 

[Khun_Kong]

Just in case somebody missed the fundamental flaw that comes up EVERY one of the numerous times this topic is broached...

 

There seems to be a core group of suddenly super moral truth seekers who are highly, highly offended by guys who "...don't admit..." or "...refuse to accept..." or "...are in self-denial..." or blah blah blah.

 

Yet, I have yet to see a single, actual poster demonstrate this "self deception" that is constantly alluded to. And, except for one single case, I haven't even seen any anecdotal "Well, I have a friend who bonks katoeys and he says he's not gay..." type of stories.

 

I would think that if you actually ask one of the guys that you see going with a katoey, not only do they not fall into denial of anything, they pretty much don't give a fuck what anyone thinks or what labels anyone wants to apply.

 

Where do you guys keep finding these k-bonkers that upset you so much?

[Zaad]

All,

 

My thoughts..

 

It's all in the penis, ...is it?

 

If you (us males in here) deliberately fuck somebody who has a penis: GAY

However, if it's a female + a rubber / plastic / silver one then it's NOT GAY. (you merely have potential to become one, but aren't quite there yet. You do hold the golden key though to enter that world)

 

If you find out afterwards and are disgusted: NOT GAY (you were merely being set up / fooled to do something you had never thought and intended of doing).

If you quite like the idea or aren't bothered. GAY.

 

If you know that person HAD a penis and refuse; NOT GAY.

If you accept; GAY. It's still (in biological terms) a male body. The missing / removed penis doesn't make you less man or more woman, eventhough it may feel or look differently.

 

There..

That should provide more answers than questions

 

[teddy]

What about if you were lost on a desert island with a rather feminine looking katoey and, even though you had held out for a few weeks, you eventually started diddling him. Would that be gay