Ladyboy's are fags

[carew66]

I recommend that everyone read Khun Kong's post above - twice. Him talk sense.

 

[Zaad]

No matter what excuses we may find, it's still a deliberate (as in NOT forced) act. male + male = GAY.

However, if somebody holds a gun to your head and you're forced (thus NOT a deliberate act) --> NOT GAY.

 

In your example above you're merely a gay who doesn't want to be recognized as such.

 

[Old Hippie]

Just in case somebody missed the fundamental flaw that comes up EVERY one of the numerous times this topic is broached...

 

There seems to be a core group of suddenly super moral truth seekers who are highly, highly offended by guys who "...don't admit..." or "...refuse to accept..." or "...are in self-denial..." or blah blah blah.

 

Yet, I have yet to see a single, actual poster demonstrate this "self deception" that is constantly alluded to. And, except for one single case, I haven't even seen any anecdotal "Well, I have a friend who bonks katoeys and he says he's not gay..." type of stories.

 

I would think that if you actually ask one of the guys that you see going with a katoey, not only do they not fall into denial of anything, they pretty much don't give a fuck what anyone thinks or what labels anyone wants to apply.

 

Where do you guys keep finding these k-bonkers that upset you so much?

 

 

You have obviously missed a major point to many of these discussions, that is, SOME who delve into this world do in fact deny what it is, and make excuses for their denial. I have discussed this with guys who go with Katoeys, SOME of whom post on this board, and they all deny any homosexual or bi-sexual side to it. I have never heard one of these guys ever say "I am indeed fucking a man in a skirt, it is none of your business, fuck off..." There is always some excuse/denial/explanation as to why THEY are not gay/bi/engaging in a homosexual act.

 

To me, this is the same as condemning openly gay people by saying "...they are gay because they fuck men who look like men...I only fuck men who think they are women and look like women, therefore I am not gay, they are, and being gay is wrong, I am not gay...so I am not wrong..."

 

Further more, by denying the truth here, you are giving into the belief that there is something wrong with this "indulgence," and thus need to excuse/deny it. There is nothing wrong with this, and the more people that are open and honest about it all, those stigmas fade away...and all can reclaim the power others seem to want to take away. A "label" only has a negative power if you let it.

 

It is (once again) the same as guys who buy whores, denying they are buying whores for whatever reason. It is as though they somehow elevate themselves above others who buy whores of a "different kind." As if saying "Those whore buyers are bad, I am good because (fillin the excuse)..."

 

If these people were honest about it, it would be more mainstream, and thus less of a negative stigma attached to it...and people would not have to lie to hide any shame associated with it, as there would no longer be any shame associated with it. Same for the Katoey fans.

 

So the question remains why can't guys who delve into this admit they are having sex with another man? Why the need to say it is something else? it is an honest question, that NONE of those who delve into this world has answered, other than with their denials and excuses...mind you, they owe me/no one any answer for it, it is just the topic of discussion.

[Torneyboy]

All of them..

Joking

[Dumsoda]

It's interesting that the "Guy" that started this whole discussion....(and threw in the curve ball, questioning which team I bat for)...is suddenly VERY silent !!!!

 

Hey Marky....what's happened?????

 

 

Is the closet door stuck....and you can't reach your keyboard??????

 

Never mind....just grab another handful of kleenex!!!!

 

Have a nice day

[Central Scrutinizer]

WLL,

 

"Cent Said:WLL,Convince him of what? That men who have sex with ladyboys are not gay or having a homosexual tryst?"

 

"WLL replied: Right. If they were then they'd fancy Somchai the Builder, not the lovely Nong Bell."

 

Whoa whoa whoa. That makes no sense to me. So, real women all prefer a male body builder type as well? What you are saying is gay men only prefer macho looking men? Gay people are just as diverse in their likes and dislikes as straight people are. They are people. Some gay men like men who are macho looking eg Somchai the Bodybuilder type. Some like feminine men, and everything in between. There's your 'shades of grey'. But the act of a man having sex with another man he knows to BE another man is in fact wanting and having homosexual sex. It's a label for the ACT, not the person. The men having sex could just as easily be bi-sexual and like having sex with both men and women. But this act is a homosexual sex act, so neither of the men are in fact purely heterosexual, because heterosexuals only have sex with people of the opposite sex.

 

 

"Quote:I thought this a good point to bring in. Lesbians are homosexual are they not?"

 

"WLL replied: They are. A homogeneous group however they're not."

 

Well, neither are homosexual men homogenous, and one degree of homosexuality (this also non-homogenous group of male homosexuals or bi-sexuals) is having sex with men who either think they are women, pretend to be women, dress like women, etc. but in fact are men and the men having sex with these transgender men are then either homosexual or bi-sexual. You seem to have a problem with the label, the name for this, as though it is somehow prejudicial to say that this act is a homosexual act.

 

Quote: Meaning what? If a 'butch' woman likes feminine women for sex she's not a lesbian? I'm not following your reasoning here WLL.

 

"WLL replied: Apparently.. Of course the butch woman is lesbian. That's what being a lesbian is: a woman being attracted to women."

 

Yes it is, and heterosexual men are likely to find many lesbian women attractive and would fuck them if they could. Does that make the hetero guy now a lesbian as well? (Many claim to be ) If I find a katoey attractive does that make me then homosexual? Of course not, unless I then knowingly, knowing that a katoey is in fact a man and not a woman, then have sex with the katoey. That then is a homosexual sex act and would make me bi-sexual if I was still attracted to women and not just katoeys (or other men).

 

Quote:Now I'd say if a 'butch' woman (a true lesbian by definition) liked feminine looking men for sex, well, that would be a better analogy would it not for this argument/discussion?

 

"WLL replied: I've seen that happen first hand actually, yes."

 

You've seen a butch lesbian who wanted to fuck a feminine looking man? Then she is not full on lesbian, but in fact bi-sexual (or at least could be bi in this circumstance with this man), because she knows this feminine looking man is in fact a man and not a woman. And, I have known butch lesbian women in long term lesbian relationships that were once bedding men (which in many/some cases I think was a bid to fit in during their youth and denying their true sexual indentity, or maybe they are truly bi. Happens with men as well who are in gay relationships for many years, but in their younger days had GFs and wives and kids even. Many try to fit into society's molds then later do what makes them happy as human beings and stop denying their sexuality).

 

"WLL states: I'm less sure if it would be a better analogy though. I'd say the better analogy is the feminine 'dee' chick; Those often are turned back from the 'dark side', or are actually bi-sexual. I've had flings with those."

 

They are bisexual. I've been with bisexual women as well (and not just in Thailand), one who had been in a long term lesbian relationship. She stifled her bisexuality during her lesbian relationship, but told me she always still had urges to be with a man, and had dreams of being with a man when she slept. She was suppressing her natural bisexual urges for the sake of her lesbian partner and their relationship. Bis have the best of both worlds, as Woody Allen put it they have a 50% better chance of having a date on the weekend than straight and homosexual people.

 

 

Quote:What shade of grey are you speaking of here WLL? Just because a ladyboy looks feminine, and looks like a woman, a man who fucks them, knowing they are NOT a woman (even though they sure do look like one-sometimes) is doing what? He's still knowingly having sex with a man, right? Looks like a lady, but still a man? Where's the 'shade of grey' here?

 

WLL replied: In the way sexual attraction works. (Hetero) men are wired to respond sexually to features that men find attractive. That may (or may not) include women who are tall, big tits, over-the top sensual. It may also include a whole range of fetishes.

 

That's true. Okay. But, heterosexual men are NOT attracted to dicks. It's kinda what makes them, well ... hetero ain't it? That wiring you speak of does not include being attracted to penises, right? Or is that just another 'fetish'? :smirk:

 

"WLL states: The best example is to give any straight man a 'dare' scenario of choosing between having sex (any sex act, up to him) with either Nong Bell as pictured above, or an actual female, say, one looking like German Chancellor Angela Merkel, or a particularly nasty mamasan of one of the Cowboy bars."

 

Does this 'choice' involve a gun to my head? Then, if no, I'd take neither. If the choice was not truly a choice, and there was a gun to my head, I'd take Angela and close my eyes and let her blow me. Because WLL I am a heterosexual and do not want to be blown by a guy no matter how pretty, sexy, and female 'looking' he is. He, to me, is still a guy and I don't want to have sex with men. It does nothing for me, just like having sex with a woman does nothing what-so-ever for a truly homosexual male, or sex with a man repulses a truly lesbian woman.

 

"Pretty much the only reason why someone would then NOT go for miss Bell is peer-pressure, fear of being (seen to be) gay and so on,"

 

What a crock of left wing PC silly bullshit that statement is. If I was gay I'd be proud to be so because that would be what and who I am. If I was bi I'd have better odds at getting a date on Friday night. Peer pressure my ass. So what are you saying here? That only a 'homophobe' would take the BJ from Angela? That's just too fucking rich WLL. Get this straight, some men are heterosexual. It has nothing to do with what others think of them, nor does it have a frigging thing to do with being phobic' about gays. Are gay men who puke at the thought of having sex with a woman then 'hetero-phobic'? Please, spare me the new age mumbo jumbo. It's certainly not due to 'peer pressure' or 'homophobia'. If you can agree that gays are gay because they are naturally gay, then why can't you seem to grasp that straights are straight because they are straight? It's simple, and these are the labels we place on these sexual acts and the people who are wired whichever way they are wired. Unless one is using these labels, which are merely language constructs we all use as thinking beings to sort through all the input we collect in our minds, to discriminate against whichever group then there is certainly nothing wrong with the categories we apply to certain behaviors, sexual or otherwise. That is what I see as wrong with the PC brigade, they hate the labels, they find something wrong with that. It's PC baloney.

 

"WLL states: because from an objective point of view, Nong Bell would push more of the attractiveness buttons."

 

So what you are saying here is you'd rather fuck a pretty young Katoey than an ugly old woman? Up to you, but please do not try to paint me and others thinking like me as some homophobe or peer pressure afraid wimp when I pass on fucking your pretty katoey.

 

Quote-Cent said earlier: Defensive? How so? By not agreeing that this is not homosexual behavior like the katoey shaggers would like one to? Like I say, those that do this are only fooling themselves if they truly believe shagging Katoeys (knowingly) is not a homosexual act.

 

"WLL stated: Well, feel free to label everything homosexual,"

 

I'm not labeling everything homosexual. I am labeling the homosexual acts as what they are in our language used here. Clearly they are homosexual acts by homosexuals or bisexual human beings.

 

"The statement continues by WLL: but then you do run out of words to distinguish between people fancying Somchai the Builder,"

 

Nope, not running out of words yet there WLL. The guys wanting to boink Somchai the Bodybuilder are either homosexual or bisexual. The women who want to boink him are clearly heterosexual, or possibly bisexual.

 

"And WLL continues some more with: or those liking the chicks pictured in that Miss Tiffany link. (The latter group often ALSO likes biological women that share some of the same features)"

 

Here's where you show your obviously flawed thinking WLL. They, the Miss Tiffany humans, are men, males of the human species, not 'chicks'. They are chicks with dicks or dicks thinking they are chicks, or guys who have had their dicks lopped off so they can be seen as being chicks, but they are NOT chicks. I've seen many expats who have been here a long time fall into this thinking of them, transgenders/katoeys, as being a 'third' sex. Of calling the katoeys she rather than he. I've seen it, but I don't buy it, and I still see them for what they are ... men. Albeit men who look like women, but still all the same, they are men, not 'chicks'.

 

"WLL continues: If that difference is not a concern then your sexual vocabulary is indeed adequate to describe the world as you see it."

 

It indeed is very adequate, and accurate as well. My 'sexual vocabulary' is in no need of any PC updating. It's working just fine.

 

"You didn't actually say it, but somewhere at this point in the discussion someone usually mentions 'calling a spade a spade'. I submit that it's actually a lot closer to labelling everything in the shed as a 'garden tool',"

 

Well, all the spades ARE in fact spades. Some are shovels, some are spades, some are little bitty trowels for planting small plants, but ALL of them are used to dig holes in the dirt. And all the rakes are rakes, some are springy, some are large toothed and made of iron, and some are finely split bamboo, but they are ALL rakes. They are all labeled collectively as gardening tools. Just as heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals are all labeled 'human beings'. Just human beings with different sexual proclivities. As the 'garden tools' are all having their own labels for the differing jobs they are used for, so are the humans labeled by their sexual acts. And, I dare say there is not a damned thing wrong with that. Unless, of course, you are a rake who would rather be a shovel?

 

"WLL ends with: never mind if it's a spade or a watering can." Again, the difference may not be relevant to some people, which is fine."

 

The difference is if I send you into the tool shed asking you to bring me a shovel and you come back with the watering can and then try to convince me the watering can is in fact a shovel, when I can clearly see it is not and I don't want a fucking watering can because I need a shovel. And, I don't need to make up a new word for said watering can so others and myself believe it is actually a spade. :smirk:

 

Loads of fun WLL. Please take this as it is intended, as a bit of verbal jousting and in fun.

 

Cent

 

[Khun_Kong]

Just in case somebody missed the fundamental flaw that comes up EVERY one of the numerous times this topic is broached...

 

There seems to be a core group of suddenly super moral truth seekers who are highly' date=' highly offended by guys who "...don't admit..." or "...refuse to accept..." or "...are in self-denial..." or blah blah blah.

 

Yet, I have yet to see a single, actual poster demonstrate this "self deception" that is constantly alluded to. And, except for one single case, I haven't even seen any anecdotal "Well, I have a friend who bonks katoeys and he says he's not gay..." type of stories.

 

I would think that if you actually ask one of the guys that you see going with a katoey, not only do they not fall into denial of anything, they pretty much don't give a fuck what anyone thinks or what labels anyone wants to apply.

 

Where do you guys keep finding these k-bonkers that upset you so much?[/quote']

 

 

 

So the question remains why can't guys who delve into this admit they are having sex with another man? Why the need to say it is something else? it is an honest question, that NONE of those who delve into this world has answered, other than with their denials and excuses...mind you, they owe me/no one any answer for it, it is just the topic of discussion.

 

Admit, denial, excuse?

 

Again, where do you guys keep finding these k-bonkers that upset you so much? Other than your small, anecdotal sample, I don't see any evidence of this. My small, anecdotal sample, demonstrates the exact opposite, sorta canceling yours out.

 

And, just to be clear, when I say your small, anecdotal sample, I am not speaking in metaphor.

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

Maybe one of the reasons men bonk men/ladyboys is that some men find it easier, or at least in their home country, to have sex with a man then with a lady. With a lady, they have to wine and dine them which translates to cost and time. Whereas with a gay man, just letting him know you want sex is probsbly all that is required.

[teddy]

It's interesting that the "Guy" that started this whole discussion....(and threw in the curve ball, questioning which team I bat for)...is suddenly VERY silent !!!!

 

Hey Marky....what's happened?????

 

 

Is the closet door stuck....and you can't reach your keyboard??????

 

Never mind....just grab another handful of kleenex!!!!

 

Have a nice day

 

DS you're so naive and insensitive in some ways. Don't you know how it usually goes with these types, they normally ask a question but hide the truth in phrase's such as "a friend of mine did this", or "a friend of mine thought this", when all the time it's them that feckin well did it or thought it. In this case it is clear to me that the OP is the closet Katoey diddler.

 

He's just unsure of his sexuality and that is why he started the thread.

 

 

[Old Hippie]

Honey, I already explained this, agree to disagree, and all that...You I and others know these people exist, some of them on this board, some posting (perhapses) in this thread...? I WILL NOT name names.