Obama preparing order to close Gitmo

[..]

You're right. The captives should've been detained completely in secret, interrogated until the last bit of valuable information was extracted...and then executed and dumped anonymously in the ocean.

Joe Stalin would be so proud of you Hugh...his little boy, all grown up now.

 

 

Cheers,

SD

[Bangkoktraveler]

You're right. The captives should've been detained completely in secret' date=' interrogated until the last bit of valuable information was extracted...and then executed and dumped anonymously in the ocean.[/quote']

Joe Stalin would be so proud of you Hugh...his little boy, all grown up now.

 

 

Cheers,

SD

 

 

 

 

Sad to say SD, this is what a lot of USA citizens say we should act.

 

Did you see that terrorist over there?

[Steve]

Gotta also ask this. Did we keep them in Gitmo because we didn't have enough evidence or proof to feel we could convict them? Did we not trust our own judicial system?

 

If we knew for sure they were terrorists there should be some substantial evidence.

 

I know there was some argument that a trial would open up a can of worms with regards to the CIA and our intelligence gathering methods. However, haven't courts made concessions to the prosecution with regards to national security and how some things were obtained?

 

I'm not so sure how easy some of these guys will be able to get back to terrorist ways. They are not in the management end of the terrorist groups I believe. As I've said, I've read stories that their usefulness to terrorist groups are of little value because they are a known commodity. They certainly couldn't be used to gain admission to Europe or the U.S. again. These guys would be tracked by all sorts of intelligence agencies.

 

I am uneasy about these guys getting out but we do have the rule of law and I think some of our fears may not be realized.

 

We've succumbed to our fears before and have seen that when our fears are played with as in the lead up to the Iraq invasion it causes more harm than good.

[..]

You're right. The captives should've been detained completely in secret' date=' interrogated until the last bit of valuable information was extracted...and then executed and dumped anonymously in the ocean.[/quote']

Joe Stalin would be so proud of you Hugh...his little boy, all grown up now.

 

 

Cheers,

SD

 

 

 

 

Sad to say SD, this is what a lot of USA citizens say we should act.

 

Did you see that terrorist over there?

You're right, and that just kills me. How can one just give up their values when the going gets tough? If you do that, they are NOT values, but, what merely suggestions? How can one consider themselves a real American if they do not believe in what she stands for? And I *hate* to use that argument, cuz that's what the righties use, but what other conclusion can I come to?

 

Cheers,

SD

[shygye]

[color:green]I know there was some argument that a trial would open up a can of worms with regards to the CIA and our intelligence gathering methods. However, haven't courts made concessions to the prosecution with regards to national security and how some things were obtained?

[/color]

 

That has always been a bogus argument! The USA has put spies on trial that dealt with nuclear weapons secrets.

 

The proof that the CIA was torturing people was when the CIA destroyed the video of the interrogations.

[Bangkoktraveler]

[color:green]I know there was some argument that a trial would open up a can of worms with regards to the CIA and our intelligence gathering methods. However, haven't courts made concessions to the prosecution with regards to national security and how some things were obtained?

[/color]

 

That has always been a bogus argument! The USA has put spies on trial that dealt with nuclear weapons secrets.

 

The proof that the CIA was torturing people was when the CIA destroyed the video of the interrogations.

 

 

You got a good point. Besides, most if not all these 'terrorist' were captured on the battle field. I doubt there is anything top secret about their capture. I believe what is top secret is what happened to these people after their capture.

 

If these people are not brought to trial then what has happened to them could happen to any one of us.

[Flashermac]

<< Especially infiltration and intelligence should be more effective. Not least should the mosques and the islamic schools be monitored and if belligerent messages are taught, they should be closed. Such a policy would necessitate better cooperation with moderate muslim governments than during the Bush presidency. Obama might be the right man for such better relations. >>

 

 

I had a Pakistani colleague - almost a non-practicing Muslim - who insisted the US was doing things so wrong with his country. Instead of military aid, he felt the US should help the country set up more public schools so that poor children did not have to go to madrassahs, where they were only taught hate and bigotry. There aren't enough public schools in Pakistani, and poor families can't afford the private schools. As a result, their children are "educated" by the religious fanatics.

 

 

[Flashermac]

To Combat Obama, Al-Qaeda Hurls Insults

 

 

Soon after the November election, al-Qaeda's No. 2 leader took stock of America's new president-elect and dismissed him with an insulting epithet. "A house Negro," Ayman al-Zawahiri said.

 

That was just a warm-up. In the weeks since, the terrorist group has unleashed a stream of verbal tirades against Barack Obama, each more venomous than the last. Obama has been called a "hypocrite," a "killer" of innocents, an "enemy of Muslims." He was even blamed for the Israeli military assault on Gaza, which began and ended before he took office.

 

"He kills your brothers and sisters in Gaza mercilessly and without affection," an al-Qaeda spokesman declared in a grainy Internet video this month.

 

The torrent of hateful words is part of what terrorism experts now believe is a deliberate, even desperate, propaganda campaign against a president who appears to have gotten under al-Qaeda's skin. The departure of George W. Bush deprived al-Qaeda of a polarizing American leader who reliably drove recruits and donations to the terrorist group.

 

With Obama, al-Qaeda faces an entirely new challenge, experts say: a U.S. president who campaigned to end the Iraq war and to close the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and who polls show is well liked throughout the Muslim world.

 

Whether the pro-Obama sentiment will last remains to be seen. On Friday, the new administration signaled that it intends to continue at least one of Bush's controversial counterterrorism policies: allowing CIA missile strikes on alleged terrorist hideouts in Pakistan's autonomous tribal region.

 

But for now, the change in Washington appears to have rattled al-Qaeda's leaders, some of whom are scrambling to convince the faithful that Obama and Bush are essentially the same.

 

"They're highly uncertain about what they're getting in this new adversary," said Paul Pillar, a former CIA counterterrorism official who lectures on national security at Georgetown University. "For al-Qaeda, as a matter of image and tone, George W. Bush had been a near-perfect foil."

 

Al-Qaeda's rhetorical swipes at Obama date to the weeks before the election, when commentators on Web sites associated with the group debated which of the two major presidential candidates would be better for the jihadist movement. While opinions differed, a consensus view supported Republican Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) as the man most likely to continue Bush administration policies and, it was hoped, drive the United States more deeply into a prolonged guerrilla war.

 

Soon after the vote, the attacks turned personal -- and insulting. In his Nov. 16 video message, Zawahiri denounced Obama as "the direct opposite of honorable black Americans" such as Malcolm X. He then used the term "house Negro," implying that Obama is merely a servant carrying out the orders of powerful whites.

 

Since then, as Obama has begun moving to reverse controversial Bush administration policies, the verbal attacks have become sharper, more frequent and more clearly aimed at Muslim audiences.

 

On Jan. 6, Zawahiri issued a message calling for a global jihad by Muslims to counter Israel's military campaign in Gaza. He then sought to frame the Israeli assault as a "link in the chain of the crusade against Islam and Muslims," with then-President-elect Obama at the head of the chain.

 

"These raids are Obama's gift to you before he takes office," the Egyptian-born Zawahiri said in the message, addressed to "Muslim brothers and mujaheddin."

 

"This is Obama, whom the American machine of lies tried to portray as the rescuer who will change the policy of America," Zawahiri said, according to a translation provided by Site Intelligence Group, a private company that monitors jihadist communications.

 

Days before Obama's inauguration, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden chimed in with a mocking prediction that the new president would founder under the weight of the military and financial burdens he would inherit. No matter what he tried to do, Obama would ultimately lose, bin Laden said on Jan. 14.

 

"If he withdraws from the war, it is military defeat," he said in an audiotaped message. "And if he continues it, he drowns in economic crisis. How can it be that [bush] passed over to him two wars, not one war, and he is unable to continue them? We are on our path to open other fronts, with permission from Allah."

 

Friday, a new al-Qaeda salvo attempted to embarrass Obama, a day after the new president announced his plans for closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay. Appearing on the videotaped message were two men who enlisted in al-Qaeda after being freed from that detention center.

 

"By Allah, imprisonment only increased our persistence in our principles for which we went out, did jihad for and were imprisoned for," said Abu Sufyan al-Azdi al-Shahri, who described himself as a deputy commander for al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. The translation was also provided by the Site group.

 

Site founder Rita Katz said the messages show "just how much al-Qaeda is intimidated by Obama."

 

"The leadership of al-Qaeda is very concerned about the wide support that Obama has been receiving from Arab and Muslim countries," Katz said. "To combat this threat, al-Qaeda has embarked on a propaganda campaign against Obama, not only by linking him to the policies of the Bush administration, including the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, but also by accusing him of actions in which he had no part."

 

Other jihadist groups appear less threatened, or perhaps more accepting of an American commander who appears more open to peaceful accommodation, Katz said. A publication known as Al-Samoud, linked to the Taliban in Afghanistan, viewed Obama's election as a welcome sign that Americans are "very much tired from the bitter war" and do not wish to prolong a conflict "ignited by Bush's insanity and his satanic policy."

 

Regardless of how Obama is viewed now by the Muslim world -- savior, menace or something in between -- the opinions will almost certainly change in the coming months. For Muslim countries, as for the United States, perceptions based on rhetoric and image will soon collide with reality as the policies of the new administration take form, said Pillar, the former CIA official.

 

"Inevitably Obama will make certain decisions that will be unpopular and which the propagandists will quickly castigate," Pillar said. "I expect that the honeymoon will be just as fragile and short as with the American electorate."

 

 

 

Link

[Bangkoktraveler]

Once Hotel Gitmo is closed, maybe we can reopen it for waterboard practicing?

[Hugh_Hoy]

Well, within 12 hours of my nd SD's reply, a number of news articles/commentaries appeared on the web indicating that the closing of Gitmo may not happen for a while. Seems Obama's staff of "good-doers" are back-tracking a bit. For instance, concern about releasing about 60 "hard core" captives has been termed an absolute non-starter by an Obama advisor-bureaucrat. In other words, it won't happen. Nice to know that the safety of the country is not going to play second-fiddle to so-called "values" which are not shared by our enemies. We know the values of our enemies and they are not nearly the same as the ones upon which our country was founded and has prospered.

 

HH