Guest lazyphil Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 you missed me ? :content: .....hey, you need a hobby!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted June 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 Now that really tickled me, LP You've managed to shut me up. I'm taking my bat and ball home for the night. Had too much to drink tonight anyway. Although I may go and rattle our resident bully boy Mean Mr Mekong's cage just for a nightcap laugh. He's always good for a giggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamui Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 Maybe Fox Noise will persuade their Zionist minders to "Give us all the facts and we decide" Doesn't all this spin :spin: make you dizzy, shygye? So, you think you have the facts? :content: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 >> Sorry, guv, the offender fell on my boot as he resisted arrest. ... but it was the peace activists giving the boot to the soldiers. The peace activists wanted to provoke a violent outcome and they succeeded. HZlSSaPT_OU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 Point taken, thanks. My peace plan: 1. 3% Land swaps - both agreed already 2. Palestinian refugees - compensation 3. A face saving deal over Jerusalem 4. A completely demilitarised Palestine 5. Golan Heights must be returned to Syria 6. Israel and Palestine invited to join EU 7. World Jewry can use Israel as stepping stone to regain European heritage. 8. All neighbouring countries to recognise Israel's final secure borders plus normalised relations - Arab summit 2002 already agreed to this. 9. End to global recession with M.E. economic renaissance OK, now answer Part 2 of my question, the part that you ignored. Assume that all this gets done, everyone smiles, shakes hands, and signs on the dotted line. Then, a few weeks later, or a few months later, The Usual Suspects start lobbing Katyushas. What, if anything, should the Palestinian government do? What, if anything, should the Israeli government do? If you say "Ignore the idiots", and you honestly believe that, then please send along your home address so I and a few fireworks-loving friends of mine know where to stage our live-fire targeted shot demonstrations and practices. Don't forget to tell the local police that you gave permission for it all. Most of our shots will almost certainly miss your house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Specialist, >> Then, a few weeks later, or a few months later, The Usual Suspects start lobbing Katyushas. .. remember a truce can be broken by either side. Not many people know that the last truce was broken by Israel, NOT Hamas. The rockets had stopped for 4 months before Israeli commandos made a raid into Gaza. 2008 June 19: An Egyptian mediated ceasefire begins between Hamas and Israel. The Palestinian movement agrees to stop firing rockets as Israel accepts to gradually ease its embargo on the Gaza Strip. November 5 “A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.. Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.†http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians I'll answer your "What if" question in another post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 The Boston Globe notes that BOTH sides strayed from a cease fire during the period of time following June, 2008. Very good photos on that site of the destruction incurred by both. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/12/israel_and_gaza.html HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 >>Assume that all this gets done, everyone smiles, shakes hands, and signs on the dotted line. Then, a few weeks later, or a few months later, The Usual Suspects start lobbing Katyushas. ... or Israel makes an incursion into Gaza for targeted assassinations. >>What, if anything, should the Palestinian government do? What, if anything, should the Israeli government do? ...Your Jeremiah logic says there can NEVER be peace because there will always be extremists who bear a grudge, so lets throw our hands up in the air and not even try, even though the vast majority on both sides want peace. Why allow the tail to wag the dog? (I deal with your "What if there’s an incident?" query in the next post… some readers don’t like long posts) After 62 years of conflict peace won’t happen overnight. Need to establish trust. My Timetable for Peace (10 years) Return to June 2008 calming truce. with Hamas Israel lifts Gaza blockade. Agrees not to launch raids into Gaza. Hamas agrees not to fire rockets, and to police other militias too Negotiations proceed to release Israeli soldier in return for Hamas prisoners [color:red]New![/color] UN/US/EU? observers monitor ceasefire… neither side wants to be seen to have jeopardized negotiations. Meanwhile .… Details of peace plan hammered out in another Camp David summit hosted by Obama. Even Hamas has agreed to recognize Israel in its 67 borders – land swaps and a face saving Jerusalem deal could sort that. Successful agreement in principle announced at Camp David including [color:red]NEW![/color] the incentive of EU membership, and big $$ compensation Hamas and Israel conduct prisoner swap as sign of good will. Massive media blitz to sell the peace that leaders have agreed on. Referendum in Israel and Palestine… the people own the peace! Jewish settlements not inside Israel’s new secure borders to be evacuated (dangerous time for fanatics to make trouble) More Palestinian prisoners released in return for start in decommissioning weapons. Big signing ceremony with top leaders.present ..the world is watching. Kudos to the courageous politicians Hoisting of Palestinian flag... statehood Israeli ambassadors exchanged throughout whole Arab world Trade and construction deals signed – the entrepreneurs own the peace now. Some prisoners released as immediate reward and good will gesture Return of some geriatric Palestinians who want to resettle in Israel where they were born Slowly, the peace agreement is enacted. UN/US/EU? observers monitor implementation.. First installments of compensation grants for refugees to help rebuild their lives in new state of Palestine. – families own the peace now too Full employment as reconstruction projects expand. Fresh Palestinian elections. Peace parties prevail. More prisoners released in stages as reward for progress in weapons decommissioning. Cultural, educational, medical exchanges – media full of good will stories. A truth and reconciliation commission as in South Africa, where facts about atrocities on both sides emerge. Amnesty from prosecution. Gun amnesty with cash rewards to mop up any remaining weapons. Weapons ownership made a criminal offense in Palestine. Final prisoners released. Economic boom – no turning back to terrorism now. European work visas issued as precursor to full EU membership 6 million American Jews flock to Israel to register their citizenship, to get a slice of the economic miracle, and an application for their triple passport Full EU membership – world Jewry regains its European heritage, while still retaining voting rights in Israel. Israeli fence broken up for landfill... they'll be short of it for all that reconstruction work. The Northern Irish peace negotiators such as US George Mitchell (now working on this peace deal) must have a few tricks up their sleeves… like early paroles and weekend release for convicted terrorists. They got a taste of peace and didn’t want to go back inside. Shalom. Inshallah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallenda Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 >>You somehow dismiss these nonviolent peace activists attacking the soldiers with metal pipes. ... nice spin , shygye. Without even seeing what might have provoked the peace activists such as stun gunning or killing their fellow activists.. because your Israeli mates won't release all the footage. You instantly side with the armed Israeli commandos who illegally stormed aboard a ship in international waters shot dead 9 people, and somehow claim they are the victims. And you swallow it hook line and sinker. Your peace plan seems very sensible. But this here... you seem to be suggesting that these protestors had just been attacked by either stun gun or else even some had been shot. But just look at the body language there in that video that's been posted here a couple of times. Robaus, really, look at those guys. That is not how people who've just been shot at would be moving around on that deck. If they had just been shot at, they'd be trying to find cover, not standing upright. These guys in this video, they show no sign at all of being under fire. Look at it again once more closely please and let me know what you think. I'm takling about the color video linked here a few posts back (a few times by now) that shows the pic of the guys with the orange vests on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robaus Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 To answer your point, Specialist, about threats to peace. Incidents may/will happen. I’d predict more so before the signing of a peace agreement and Palestinian statehood than after it. People will have too much to lose in peace time. Plus Palestine would be a legitimate UN state with laws, responsibilities and accountability. At the moment it's a loose arrangement of factions occupied or besieged by Israel There won’t be any rockets fired if Hamas signs a ceasefire with Israel. Hamas stuck to the deal last time until Israel conducted their Nov 2008 raid. UN/US/EU observers could monitor who does what. The whole world will be watching and ready to point the finger. Punishment could range from Shaming to arrest of perpetrators to sanctions to war crimes tribunal. There’d be more at stake this time because a real peace is on the table, not just vague dreams. Quite honestly the main stumbling block will come from Israel. They have never allowed observers before, always insisting that these are internal Israeli affairs. That’s where Obama has his work cut out to persuade all sides with his “Trust me, it’ll work. I guarantee it.†salesmanship Incidents are more likely to arise from the nutter element trying to derail the peace. Hamas would have to guarantee that they would control any breakaway group. PA to jump on Palestinians who try to knife an Israeli settler or soldier Israel would have to guarantee that they would jump on any fanatical Zionist settlers shooting Palestinian farmers or setting fire to mosques. All parties (incl UN) would have to agree in advance to a contingency scenario – how they are going to deal with a suicide bombing or a settler killing a farmer etc , but it must not be a knee jerk/bull in a china shop response (as in the recent cockup) that plays right into the hands of the extremists.who want to derail the peace. Think smart, co-operate, plan ahead. With the best will in the world from all sides, incidents may happen. They still do in N Ireland from the Real IRA and UVF,but they are becoming rarer. The only people who would lose out in a peace deal would be religious nutters on both sides who, clinging to their works of fiction, hear imaginary voices from a supernatural friend telling them to continue the struggle. Perhaps the UN could fund a giant psychiatric hospital in the Negev and have them all certified. A handful of fanatics cannot be allowed to hold to ransom.the majority who want peace. Shalom Inshallah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.