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On 6/19/2021 at 11:57 AM, chocolat steve said:

I also believe reparations are owed. In large part for continued endemic and systemic targeted post slavery. 100 years of apartheid including policies that stunted or denied growth. 60 years of either targeting (mass incarceration, institutional targeting, etc) or simply neglect. 

I'd limit beneficiaries to those that 1. Can trace their ancestry to slavery on both sides of the family. 2. Are identified legally as Black (birth certificate, driver's licenses, government documents). 3. You would have to apply and legally be held responsible for fraud. 

Controversial to some, not to me. ;)  More than willing to hear counter arguments. 

Why more handouts for wannabe victims just because a couple of hundred years ago fellow Africans sold their fore bears into slavery?  Better to spend the money on the police, schools and health care. Most of the reparation bribes would only be wasted anyway. If it did happen what about the Native Americans who had their land stolen and who suffered genocidal attacks from King Philips war in the 17th cent to wounded knee in the 19th.

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6 hours ago, paul101 said:

fellow Africans sold their fore bears into slavery? 

Proof? Whilst this possibly may have happened, in isolated instances,  It is generally accepted that enforced slavery, i.e. capture and chaining; was the predominate method of gaining slaves,  not just in the African arena, but throughout time.


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One of the excellent wits, who is a member of this board, must have gained my board email in the past.

And a year or so ago, signed me up to a left leaning email list from yokel land. I of course, consigned it's offerings  to my Junk mail filters.

Recently I was assessing my junk mail, as I occasionally do to see if there's anything that should not be there.

And I found this: (this is an image so that none of the tracking links will work)



The reason I post this, is that it is an indication, that despite appearances, Trump, and opposition to Trump, is not finished yet.

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On 6/23/2021 at 5:26 PM, chocolat steve said:

...related to my other post, I'd also like to see the G8 or even better the G20, get involved in the environment as well. The Sahara desert was once mostly grasslands. There is a present plan to plant a million trees in sub Sahara to stop the expansion of the desert. I applaud that. 

I'd love to see a financial incentive to save the animals of Africa that are used for Chinese meds or western exotic markets, etc. If the lasts Rhino is gone its not good for all of us. So, how about an incentive like the more Rhinos such and such countries have, the more money. Pay these game wardens a good wage. Use modern technology, donate it, such as drones, night vision glasses. Give these game wardens the salary and tech to do the job. 

Same with saving the Amazon in South America. I'd love to see some leadership at the G20 level for all these things, green, environment, etc, lets get together and work on viable solutions. We may not agree with most things with Russia and China but they are globally influential as well and so work on common / mutual interests. 

this is important stuff IMHO:

Sahara - yes wot you said - but more expansively, think terra forming, the reason the Amazon is not a desert, is that they have not cut down all the trees yet. All the water in the Amazon, does not come from a well, it comes mainly from the presence of trees.

Africa - we are just coming to widely see, that the depletion of one species or a group of species, as a class,  in terms of environmental niches, does mean unintended consequences, including destruction of ecosystems. I could give several examples of this on my doorstep and the Sahara and the middle of Australia are two more.

Amazon - see my paragraph on Sahara above.

further: I've been watching a series of excellent doccos on the Aboriginal folk of Australia, their origins and so on. What I am learning is a lot, but several key points.

80k yrs ago is the earliest they got to Australia, which was then a land that was pretty much connected to Africa via Asia see LINK as it would need to be, for the walking of.

There were, about 10,000 to 40,000 yrs ago, a large number  of different societies with different cultures (say 30-ish), spread right across OZ.

The Human presence did two things, it nuked the "megafauna" and it instituted a burning culture that terraformed Australia. I don't have enough information to present it here, but it is likely that the middle of Australia, would have been possessed of a hell of a lot of animals and forests, had not the nuking and burning taken place. Think Amazon. Could be the same for the Sahara.

Much as it pains me to align with the greenies, re-forestation and ecology preservation (with all the animals etc) is a good way forward, if we want somewhere to live.

a note: I've been somewhat skeptical about this global warming, purely because the 0.6 °C temperature rise since measurements began, oft quoted as proof, has been static over the last 30 years. Two things have modified my view.

1. a docco called "Chasing Coral" in which they say that most of the 'global warming' is being absorbed by the oceans. Well now I know that, it makes more sense to me, as it's science, not some, marketing, attention whore, in harem pants...

2. I saw a piece, purportedly based on science, that the 0.6 °C temperature rise since measurements began, is now 0.7 °C. If true, then we have some evidence to back up the rhetoric..


On 6/23/2021 at 7:44 PM, Mekong said:

Planting a few tress does not compensate for the exploitation of Child Labour in their DRC mining Cobalt for all the batteries which will be required.

What is going on in the DRC is absolutely disgusting but the West G8 / G20)turn a blind eye because of the need for Cobalt.

Quite, and if we think back, it is as it has ever been, Romans, Brits, and so on.

Down here in NZ, even though I am a beneficiary, of Queen Vic, seeing a land full of "savages" (british vernacular of the time) that she wanted, it is obvious to me that the "progress" of world history, is as follows.

"I am bigger than you, I want what you have, my guns/lawyers/money are bigger than yours, accede or there'll be trouble"

"Children, goats, women, slaves, land?  Don't annoy me with details".

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6 hours ago, Coss said:

Proof? Whilst this possibly may have happened, in isolated instances,  It is generally accepted that enforced slavery, i.e. capture and chaining; was the predominate method of gaining slaves,  not just in the African arena, but throughout time.


Time you got up to date, even CNN reported on this 25 years ago!

That crime is usually blamed entirely on the European outsiders who inflicted slavery on African victims. But new research by some African scholars supports a different view - - that Africans should share the blame for slavery.

"It was the Africans themselves who were enslaving their fellow Africans, sending them to the coast to be shipped outside," says researcher Akosua Perbi of the University of Ghana


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What I was focussing on, was your assertion that all the fellow Africans had to do was "sell" the unfortunates into slavery.

What you then quote, from your linked content is that it was, "Africans themselves who were enslaving their fellow Africans"  i.e whacking them over the head, with a club, chaining them and then sending them, to be sold. Which supports my view that it wasn't just an economic transaction, it was capture and chaining...





"Time you got up to date, even CNN reported on this 25 years ago!" 

If I ask you for proof, you attack me, rather than the argument, do you lack the intellectual capacity to engage in a discussion, in which the content is the subject? or do you always start first, by attacking the messenger, like most Trumpanzees...


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1 hour ago, Mekong said:

Society cannot changed what happened in NZ in 1840, it can change what is happening in DRC in 2021.

Ah yes, but which society? that of the people who are profiting from the Cobalt, or you and me?

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You are missing the point, being, this so called “Clean Energy” is not as “Clean” as the Greens/Environmentalists/Tree Huggers claim it to be.

They are cleaner then Petrol / Diesel vehicles for sure, but not zero emissions as claimed when you take into account the resources required to manufacture Batteries, Solar Panels, Wind Turbines etc. I just wish these self righteous pricks would shut the fuck up.

I will never own an Electric Vehicle because a) on average 22% more expensive to purchase than the Petrol equivalent and b) I would need a bloody long lead to charge from the 16th floor.

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