Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Says khunsanuk: Hi, <snipped> "mai roojak" Don't know (that's the translation, rather than me telling you that I do not know ) Sanuk! More specifically, "mai roojak" translates to not knowing a person/place. In other words, "I don't know you". ("mai roojak khun") "Mai roo" or "mai sahp" translates to not knowing a fact/idea/thing; as "I don't know what time it is" or "I don't know how many beers I've had" :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 KS- Agree with your translations obviously however concerning Mai roojak it should be pointed out to those others that are linguistically challenged that this refers to knowing people, as compared to mai roo ,or mai sahp which is I don't know something -info etc etc or a fact I have been STUCK in AHMERIiiICA since I paid my taxes early APRIL and am coming back home nextweek -Gullivers??still on Fridays... Perhaps I will make an appearance :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 I agree with the hardliners on this like Maisanuk and Jacko: yes it was a scam, and no it shouldn't be tolerated. And principles DO count. These girls are working in a service industry and being paid handsomely for it, by Thai standards. (Bear in mind that a Thai agricultural worker gets paid B120 for a full days back breaking work in a rice field). In my experience the girl IS expected to have sex with you if you pay her bar fine, just as in Angeles. In my opinion the only reason why many girls give such poor service is because so many farang punters let them get away with it. The Thais are a pretty racist bunch and have little or no respect for foreigners in general: if they think they can get away with it they will treat us like shit, and I include giving poor service in that category. I am speaking from personal experience here: I used to be far to soft in my dealings with these women and have hardened up over time - with improved results. If a girl doesn't come up with the goods, go and get your bar-fine back IMMEDIATELY. I have had to do this three times from memory. First time was in Pattaya: having got the girl back to my hotel she point blank refused to shag with the light on and got really stroppy about it. I went straight back to the bar, explained the situation and was given my barfine back no questions. Second time was in Angeles: the girl didn't want to play ('I have boyfriend') so again went straight back and got my barfine refunded. Third time was recently on Soi Cowboy, and for a very stupid reason. The BG took me into another bar against my wishes for a drink. After getting our own drinks she asked me to buy her 'sister' a LD. Mai dai. A bit later she asked again. MAI DAI! After being asked for a fifth time I was furious: I paid checkbin and took her straight back to her bar (Shark Bar or Shebas - I can't remember which one). They didn't want to know at first, but after I pulled my mobile out and threatened to call the tourist police (1155 - neung neung haa haa) they coughed up. If these girls give you shit give it back by the bucket load - and most important of all MAKE THEM LOSE FACE. These women are far from innocent and will play your emotions for all their worth. Don't let them get away with it. Always stay in charge of the situation. If they have to learn how to do their job the hard way then so be it. And just because we are in Thailand doesn't mean that we have to accept shoddy Thai business practises (I was going to say principles but that wouldn't be appropriate): the girls, mamasans and bar owners make their livings out of us which gives us a lot of leverage over them. These buggers play by their rules only because we are stupid enough to let them. Cynical? Contentious even? I prefer to think that I am being realistic. A large number of the women in the farang oriented industry are in it because it is easy money, and the easier the money the better as far as they are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straycat Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Are you serious? In my humble opinion your approach -- being hard liner like that -- sounds like no sanuk at all.... Go with the flow, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, I'd say Nothing wrong in "demanding the goods" but stirring up so much crap for it? (neung neung haa haa) :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Says pattaya127: but in no way should leaving the kids in the village be equated to "dumping" them. I was referring to women leaving their families unanounced for sanuk purposes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 GL, I agree, OH go get your BF back, she reniged on her deal. I disagree with the notion a BF doesn't mean 'boom-boom', it's the main reason and the 'girls' know that. I had the same thing happen to me in Pattaya, a girl from Superbaby. Actually alot of the girls from Superbaby do that act..........anyway chok dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Greenlander - I agree with you and the hardliners generally, but I don't think that I would have threatened to call police in that particular situation. And if you are in town during the next month, I would like to buy you a drink. Here are some thoughts not all specifically addressed to you: 1. This girl did actually allow OH to begin the act, so maybe she did really JEP, and it's not 100% clear that it was a scam. 2. I recently changed my standard procedure of taking the girl directly back to the room for sex, or maybe after a little dinner first, to taking her around with me for a little drinking and sanuk first. While this has the possible benefit of loosening the girl up a bit, it has the potential downside risk of losing an evening of precious vacation time if she goes starfish or bitch back in the room. 3. Making them lose face is a very good way, IMO, to make them pay for their scamming and possibly learn a lesson. Once, I was treating a few girls to lady drinks, and an ugly junior mamasan sneaked a drink chit into my cup after I told her twice I would not buy her a drink. I made a scene and told her I would not pay for her drink, and she had to take the cash out of pocket and pay me in front of everyone at the bar. 4. Many say that it is best to negotiate the price and expected sex act up front, but recently I have tried being more casual and going with the "you go with me, up to you" approach. This introduces another risk, though, because instead of going starfish or refusing the act, they can just ask for a sky high price at 3 am, and you have no recourse with the bar. I don't really like to talk money up front, as it takes away any bit of romantic illusion, but recently had a dancer at Rainbow 2 ask for 4000B at 3am after I took her out to a few bars. I kicked her out, and in retrospect, should not have given her taxi money. If I had taken her directly back to the room or negotiated a price up front, I could have avoided wasting an evening of my time, and for a tourist rather than an expat, I see this as the more serious risk. I am moving more toward your hard line approach, although I do tend to be too generous with the good performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Hi, "Making them lose face is a very good way," to get yourself in serious trouble. Thais take their face VERY serious and if you piss of the wrong person, by making them lose face, the consequences could be VERY severe as well. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranma500 Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 I don't think you can simply say that these girls are 'working in a service industry' and therefore should provide a professional service. We're not talking about being a waitress or a tour-guide or a maid - we're talking about sharing with a total stranger the most intimate part of oneself. I know that after a while many girls get quite used to it, but for a new girl in a bar, it really is not easy. Surely that is obvious. Thais are a shy people. You only have to go to the beach to see that many girls don't even wear bikinis. And there are issues of vulnerability, social stigma, shame, not to mention health risks. And don't forget that for Thai girls who often shower three times a day, some of us seem positively smelly. I just don't think we should make light of this. When a girl enters a bar, whether it be through financial need, familial responsibility or, okay, laziness (and let's face it, who can blame them for not wanting to work in a sweat-shop or in the ricefields), the first few weeks are damn hard, not only physically but emotionally. Most girls spend a lot of time crying in those first few weeks. Yes, they are getting paid very well by Thai standards, but they are making some very big sacrifices for their money. But the majority hide this from us and bear it with enormous grace. My girlfriend from Buriram ( ex BG) reckons that about 80% of her classmates from school now work in some capacity as sex-workers. For many girls in this poor area, life as a prostitute is the only way to escape the village, earn a decent living, and support the family. And many dream of hitting the jackpot, and finding a farang who will take care of them and build them a big house in the village like the ones they have seen growing up. Of course some girls work hard at school, and get decent jobs, but even a qualified office worker doesn't earn as much as a popular bargirl. And when you come from an uneducated family with little encouragement or understanding of the need for education, with little expectation of success in life, I think it is entirely understandable that girls take the well-trodden path to prostitution. But, again, that doesn't make those first few weeks easy. Some girls sell their virginity, and thus their first sexual encounter - an important psychological and emotional experience - is devoid of love and caring, and with a total stranger. It's their choice, and I believe they have the right to make this decision, but I know they don't enjoy it. I have been travelling to Thailand for five years now, and have barfined many, many times. Yet I can count on the fingers of one hand the occasions in which I feel my trust has been abused. I once barfined a girl, who wasn't young, but had worked in a bar only for a few days. She did not refuse sex, but it was very clear that she wasn't enjoying it. Afterwards she burst into tears. She explained that she had never thought that she would end up having to be a prostitute, and that she felt she had hit rock-bottom in life. Just because these girls work in a bar doesn't mean they don't have emotions, hopes, disappointments, bad days, days when they really can't be bothered, and times when they feel shitty about what they have to do for money. Of course no-one likes to feel they're a 'mug' whose been taken for a ride by a greedy, scamster bargirl. I know this happens, and I agree that it does one's own self-esteem no good to accept this, and it also does the girl no good either. There is no doubt that some girls (usually after some time in the bar) learn the tricks of the trade, and become masters of the scam. And we shouldn't let them get away with it. But what I don't understand is this. When a girl has gone back to your room, when she has showered, undressed, gone to bed with you, and proceeded to penetration, what does she stand to gain by saying that it hurts and that she can't continue? She must know that she isn't going to get paid, that you will be at least disappointed, and that there is a possibility you will return to the bar and cause trouble for her. It is unlikely even that she will save any significant amount of time. If it is a scam, it is not a very good one. Surely the only explanation is that she really doesn't want sex, either in general, or that particular night, or with you. If that is the case, and the chemistry, for whatever reason, is not there, would you really want to continue, knowing that the girl doesn't want it, and isn't enjoying it? Yes, you can buy the girl's time, and you can buy her company, but you can never buy her enjoyment. And if she's clearly not enjoying it and really doesn't want it, it's surely better to suggest that she doesn't have to, try to find out the reason, and, however disappointed, bear this in good grace. ranma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyfarang Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 In general, I agree with you. But I don't think that there is any real danger to make a bar girl lose face in her bar for scamming you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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