debts

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"On property, foreigners will never going to have the ownership except condos for if they do, the prices will go beyond the reach of the Thais."

 

This seems to be a common argument used against allowing foreigners land ownership, but I don't buy it. This could easily be avoided by a few simple restrictions, say 'a foreigner can only buy land for the purpose of a residency, not exceeding 1 rai and within city limits'.

 

Sanuk!

[shygye]

I don't agree about foreign ownership. If the Japanese could not buy the majority of land in Hawaii, how could foreigners buy the majority of land in Thailand? Remember the Japanese lost big time on their properties in Hawaii and mainland USA.

[Old Hippie]

The Japanese lost, but still almost all the beach front hotels in Ohau are foreign owned, I think there was only one American/Local owned one left...? Here in California, and other areas I suppose, There are many foeigners buyinf land/property/houses etc...so they help drive up the demand...thus prices...

 

Example: you have 10 houses for sale, and 5 buyers, the cost will be low, bring in 20 foreigners, compeating for the same 5 houses, and the prices will soar... only the richest 5 can buy...everyone else is priced out. Frankly, if foreginrs couldn't own property here, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper...in the USA, you can buy property without ever actually comming here...sad really...wesold this country away...something like 7% of this country's assets arew owned/controlled by the Saudis alone...hell, I work with guys who aren't citezens, and own 3-4 propertys...

 

In Thailand, I could see ownership with restrictions, as KS said, limit the amount, residency only, you must live there etc...

[shygye]

You are wrong OH. In CA and elsewhere, the rise in prices tracks LOCAL population and income increases. The biggest foreign property owners in the USA is the UK.

 

Why haven't the rich Thais bought up all the land in Thailand and cut out the lower class Thais? Why is it better for the average Thai if "rich" Thais buy the land and not foreigners?

[Central Scrutinizer]

Shygye,

 

Actually I have seen that the rich 'Chinese' Thais here in Surin area do own most of the desirable and lucrative properties here. It is amazing how they rape the poorer, less well off, and 'lower-classed' fellow Thais here.

 

Here's an example. The rich here buy up or already own most of the land and buildings on any main soi that has potential business zoning use or rights. They put up shopfront buildings with rooms to rent above. To rent one of their 'high-traffic' shop fronts you need to place a YEARLY deposit of 50,000 baht down. The small shopfront will run you 5,000 baht a month in rent. EVERY year you need to come up with another 50,000 baht deposit to keep your shopfront shop. So effectively they are really charging these people nearly 10,000 baht a month rent! In Surin! I pay 2,500 baht a month in rent for a three bedroom townhouse style house in a middle class neighborhood. So a small shop on a main soi will run you 4 times the amount in monthly rent as a three bedroom home in a good neighborhood. MOST can not make enough to pay this outrageous amount of rent and yearly 'down'. The rich know this but do it anyway because they 'can', as they own pretty much all the damned property around here and can do as they please. What is really weird is they'll let these failed shopfronts sit empty for months and even YEARS if no one can come up with these downpayment payments. How the hell they can do this is beyond me. They are so stubborn that they will let the properties sit empty and collect no money rather than lower the costs/rents and keep the places full and running. Sheer mule-headed stubborness and arrogance. And they could care less about their own community and fellow Thais. It doesn't seem to matter what the market will bear. It's what they think the market should be, and be damned for anything or anyone else. These shopfronts fail usually within months. The overhead is just too high on the amount of traffic and sales they can generate. I've seen it time and again up here. But, the damned fools renting these places are always replaced eventually by another damned fool who will give it a go and usually lose their shirts. But meanwhile, the rich property owner has lost the thousands of baht he could have made just renting the places he owns at a reasonable price where the shop renters could make a profit and keep their business running and have a steady long-running stable business. It's fucked up really, and hard to understand at times. It takes them years sometimes to recoup the losses from an empty shop that gained them no income all the time it sat empty. Strange business practices here.

 

And let me add this. Many poorer Thais here are in hock up to their necks, and it's these rich Thais they are in hock to. Many many Thais have their land, homes, automobiles, motocykes, gold, jewelry, and other assets in hock to these leeches. The rates are usary and the papers of deed and ownership are held for ages while the poorer Thais try to just make the monthly vig payments on their 'loans'. It's a house of cards that will one day collapse again. And once again it will do serious harm to those who will least be able to afford it.

 

So, in answer to your question "Why haven't the rich Thais bought up all the land in Thailand and cut out the lower class Thais?" , effectively they have in one form or another.

 

and,

 

"Why is it better for the average Thai if "rich" Thais buy the land and not foreigners?" You are right, it likely isn't, but it IS better for the rich Thais to have no foreign competition. Some decent competition from foreign owners would likely benefit the Thais who aren't property owners and rich.

 

That's what the rich 'elite' here fear ... true competition.

 

Cent

[Old Hippie]

shygye said:

You are wrong OH. In CA and elsewhere, the rise in prices tracks LOCAL population and income increases. The biggest foreign property owners in the USA is the UK.

 

Why haven't the rich Thais bought up all the land in Thailand and cut out the lower class Thais? Why is it better for the average Thai if "rich" Thais buy the land and not foreigners?

 

Not sure where I am wrong, I just said forigners buying houses helped drive up demand and cost. I also Said something like 7% of this countries assests were controlled by Saudis, I never said they were the biggest group.

 

True, prices are tied to population and their incomes to a point, but the bottom line is, there is only so much land available. If you have 100 Local families compeating for a property, that is one demand, bring in an additional 100 guys from the outside, and you will see the price go even higher, simple supply and demand, especially here in the Bay are. Salaries in my area are on the decline. The salary rise /Dot.Com boom has slowed or died off, there are fewer people in this area, as jobs have dwindled yet prices have continued to soar.

 

The San Francisco Chronicle (might have been the Examiner) had an article last year about the dollar dropping, prompting foreign investers to come here and buy real estate, in part due to a favorable exchange rate, and relatively low interest. So all of this does factor into very high prices, especially in my area. The average salary here would not qualify for a mortgage on the average priced home, even with 30-50% down...thus all sorts of creative financing, and struggle to buy a home. Frankly, I am hoping for a correction in the market.

[llso]

Hi Fa,

 

Let me tell you our little family story of houses and loans.

 

I built a fairly nice house for my wife somewhere in Issan.

 

We live in a popular thai seaside resort town. One day she gets a phone call and bang her and the baby are on the next train to BR. Knew something was up but couldn't get it out of her. I became a bit suspicious because my brother in law was getting ready to go off to Taiwan to work for a year.

 

 

Seems that my brother in law and his lovely wife decided that rather than pay the employment agency in BKK 100,000 Baht to be paid back at a high interest rate they would borrow the money from the bank using our house as security.

How clever they are.

 

Everything was fine for 6 months. Sister showed up with new phone, money.

 

I get the old" can I tell you something and you promise not be mad" thing, you promise.

 

Brother in law was let go short of his one-year contract and half the loan was still left, but not too worry the company was going to pay him. Sure they had a dozen more village guys waiting to sign up and pay their high interest. Well after the bank got involved and then they got the labor dept. involved they got back some money enough to just pay off

The loan. A few months later we are up there and I ask where is the deed for the land.

 

As it turns out they didn?t pay off the loan but bought a second hand motorbike instead. Certainly couldn?t come back after working in Taiwan with nothing to show for it , that would have meant a terrible loss of face. They then were paying only the interest on the loan some of the time even though they were both working down south doing construction. My wife got involved and began making some payments on the loan. I was freaking out saying that I wasn?t going to pay any of it and they had better do something because the bank wasn?t going to keep going on like this forever.

 

My wife goes one month to the bank to make a payment and they tell her that the loan has been paid off by the employment agency in BKK. So for 40,000 Baht they got a million baht house and land. I was in Bangkok and my wife calls me crying saying that we lost the house. She calls the agency and they give her a run around. The agency was a co-signer to the loan and when the bank called the loan in they paid it off and they got the deed.

 

I have my educated Thai business partner call up the agency and she tells them that this is a Falang?s house and we are going to get an attorney. Also that they overcharged them more than the law allows for the job, visa, and ticket to Taiwan.

 

They call her back and say that if we come tomorrow with the money they paid she will give us the deed back. I had to have my wife?s mother send her ID card the deed for the land was in her name. Bring our marriage certificicate to prove that we were married and my passport.

 

So my Thai business partner and I go to the office hid in a BKK neighborhood with no sign or address. The place had a high security, blacked out door and they sat us down at a table and sofa right inside the door. After a whole bunch of copying and checking everything counting the money, the nice Chinese lady goes upstairs and comes back with our land deed.

When it was finished I asked the lady how come the bank loaned 100,000 Baht on a half-rai piece of land in a small village. She replied because have ?big house?.

 

My condition for bailing them out was that the land goes into my wife?s name and I got the deed and locked it in my comp. Drawer. When I had mentioned before to put the land in my wife?s name mama said ok but then the 2 sisters and the brother wanted their share of their inheritance for the land, 10,000 Baht each. Even though the other sister is living in the old house next door. I was expecting her to say something about her 10,000 and I was going to tell her get it from your sister that nearly lost everything. But nothing was said.

 

LL

[Old Hippie]

You know, in all truth, I hear stories like this, and I am grateful/thankful/lucky that that girl dumped my loser ass for a bigger sucker...

[The_Munchmaster]

I can't afford to get married.

 

Why?

 

Because I can't afford to get divorced.

[zob65]

llso, have you come to your senses yet! put your money in your pocket and forget about all the rest. You have been done Thai style.

You will never win.