ChristianTroy Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Old Hippie said:...give a man a fish, he has food one day, teach a man to fish, he can have food for a life time..." all you are doing is giving her a fish...not teaching her how to fend for herself... he's right! bust1 said:I agree with what you say OH...the problem there is that for every 1 willing to teach her how to fish, there's 20 willing to buy her one. he is more right!!! and what you guys think which option she will choose? going fishing or getting the free fish served on a plate? i guess she will choose the easy way lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 CT and OH: There is a fallacy in the reasoning here. There may be no real difference for the girl in the long run whether you send money or not. As far as teaching her to do a job, what overseas sponsor could possibly accomplish that? I suppose there are examples of it happening but so rare that it is hardly worth considering. These are bargirls we are talking about right? Their job prospects are thoroughly limited and have very limited potential for change no matter how hard a farang might wish she would. And I don't see how a guy could teach a bargirl to be self reliant. The girls may already be self reliant as far as that is possible for them. Hence the reason they are selling pussy. back to the point of sponsoring or not sponsoring. I say it makes no real difference. It doesn't cause her to be dependent. For example, if you send a bargirl money, in most cases i'm sure everyone agrees the girl will continue to go with customers. And if you don't send a girl money, guess what, she will continue to go with customers. If you send money or not, she will continue to look for other sponsors. If you send money or not, your typical bargirl with limited schooling is not suddenly going to enroll at Chula or even Ramkaenhang Univ. If you send money, she will buy material (and sometimes useless) things. If you don't send money, she will not buy material things. What is the difference? So the idea that sending money is harmful to the girl is an assumption that is incorrect. The reason for a guy to not send money is because of the usual reason - he barely knows the girl and she may be playing him. Not because sending money will make her dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 MaiLuk said:CT and OH: And I don't see how a guy could teach a bargirl to be self reliant. The girls may already be self reliant as far as that is possible for them. Hence the reason they are selling pussy. I agree, it doesn't even have to be a BG. It could be any other person in the world. I personally know so many people that have the potential to do something great but they are happy (aka lazy) with what they already have accomplished! A bar girl beeing self reliant is probably ot the question, the real question is how long can she be self reliant when all her 'friends' tell her to come back because 'Jimmy' is waiting for her. I guess there is some presure on this girl, "do I take the fast track or should I do the good job?" MaiLuk said: And if you don't send a girl money, guess what, she will continue to go with customers. I am still not sure about that, but so many guys say that as a fact! Personally I was lucky when it comes to that! But what bothers me most is that in that night when she tells you her story she claims that she is 'working bar' to help her family, to buy food and clothes for her baby, making the house! She will tell you that she doesn't want to work forever and that she likes it at home more than here in the city (whatever city it might be) When we are talking about real sponsoring, 25-50k baht then her mission in the city should be accomplished or am i totally wrong here? How many times a punter had to hear how much she misses the baby and her momma and how many times the girls didn't go home when she had the time and the money? What I am trying to say is: she requires money from me to stay in this relationship and I tell her to go home or she doesnt get money! Maybe some people think, look at the bad bad CT he tells the girl to go home, but IMO it is the best protection for herself, she simply can't be seen with someone else when she is not there and never underestimate the talking of the jealous collegues who doesn't have a sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkkbound04 Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Any charitable giving can self defeating,and I am talking about relatively small amounts of £, what the receipitant does with it is what matters but that is their choice. The point about it being altruisistic is that 'I' feel good just doing it. I don't give a rats arse where the money goes, to a sick mother,college fees, alcoholic BF or just contributing to the spiraling costs of life in the p4p scene, its of little concern to me. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffHello Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 dont sponsors realise that the recipient is having a high old time on the money with their thai or farang bloke whilst they are in denial? i have been dining at the Y when a gal has been talking to her sponsor on the phone telling him how much she loved him ,bla bla bla ! i nearly died laughing whilst on the job ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 "...CT and OH: There is a fallacy in the reasoning here. There may be no real difference for the girl in the long run whether you send money or not. .." No fallacy at at all, pretty my fact from what I and others have known... "...As far as teaching her to do a job, what overseas sponsor could possibly accomplish that? I suppose there are examples of it happening but so rare that it is hardly worth considering. These are bargirls we are talking about right? Their job prospects are thoroughly limited and have very limited potential for change no matter how hard a farang might wish she would..." Exactly the point. So why waste yourmoney? "...So the idea that sending money is harmful to the girl is an assumption that is incorrect..." Not from what I have seen. She WILL become dependenmt on it, it will not be "enough" (never is) and she will look for more and bigger sponsors... "...The reason for a guy to not send money is because of the usual reason - he barely knows the girl and she may be playing him. Not because sending money will make her dependent..." Let me agree with the first part, and disagree with the second, and as I have said, I realize there are always exceptions, not hard rules, I am genereally speaking here, from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Old Hippie said: "...The reason for a guy to not send money is because of the usual reason - he barely knows the girl and she may be playing him. Not because sending money will make her dependent..." Let me agree with the first part, and disagree with the second, and as I have said, I realize there are always exceptions, not hard rules, I am genereally speaking here, from my experience. I agree with both of you. I have been told to see things from BGs point if view: I believe it is difficult to start all over again once the relationship is over. First she gotta get over him (if she loved him), then she gotta go back to the bar and then she has to find someone new. Depending on her emotional state, if she was in love with him or in love with the money or both she will build a protection wall around herself that this is not going to happen again! It is hard to stand up again when you already had everything you wanted! Doing the same things over and over again just to get back where you have been before! This is where I see the dependence beeing a negative aspect. If the guy would have teached her something she wouldn't have to do it anymore, she would have accomplished one big goal in her life for good! She could have focused on other things and she would have the freedom to wait for the guy she really wants! Step by step she could have changed her life. But here is the problem, IME these girl want everything right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 "... believe it is difficult to start all over again once the relationship is over. First she gotta get over him (if she loved him), then she gotta go back to the bar and then she has to find someone new..." Assumibng she actually ever left the bar, and had ONLY one sponsor. Most likely, she did not do either... "...This is where I see the dependence beeing a negative aspect. If the guy would have teached her something she wouldn't have to do it anymore, she would have accomplished one big goal in her life for good! She could have focused on other things..." The problem is, most Bar girls don't want to learn anything new, as it requires dicsipline and control, and effort/hard work. What ever they learn will not paty as much as bar work... Some guys on this board met "Mrs. Hipie #2," graduated University with honors, has had severel high paying jobs in real estate. She still works with her regulars, and occassionally goes out looking for new guys, hits/works the higher end venues, and when they don't pay off, she slums it in Lower sukhumvit. Why? well as she says, "...20Kbhat salatry does not cover my living..." She shops to much, has a nice new car, a really nice room at 7K a month etc...4-5K a month may goes home for her parents who raise her daughter, but that is it, the rest is hers. Despite her job, and "moonlighting" she has nothing really saved, and is dependent on what she makes as a whore rather than getting by on what is a good salary by Thai standards. Additionally, as she makes money whoring, and has guys she can hit up for money, she often quits her jobs when she is pissed about something, rather than working through the problems, why? she doesn't need the job, she has other income... "...and she would have the freedom to wait for the guy she really wants!..." This is another problem girls with sponsors have, they hold out for a pie in the sky dream. As Torrenova (a bar owner) said, "...boyfriends/sponsors kill the inititive to do their job in the bar..." (he said that in another thread, and I am paraphrasing) "...Step by step she could have changed her life. But here is the problem, IME these girl want everything right now! ..." Exactly, I have likened it to compulsive gamblers. The compulsive gambler always wants that big score, the one big hit, and he will quit gambling "...just once I want..." trouble is, once isn't enough, and no score is ever big enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Old Hippie said:Despite her job, and "moonlighting" she has nothing really saved, and is dependent on what she makes as a whore rather than getting by on what is a good salary by Thai standards. Exactly, this is one of the things I will never understand! How can someone spend more money than he actually does especially when someone is doing already better than the most in his envoirement!? Why girls like to have a car in BKK? it is the most unnecessary thing to posess in this city you are way faster with a bicycle !! They blow their money for status and that could make me explode! I like the graving for more, I actually think this is a good thing not to be satisfied with too little but it is always about the way how you would like to achieve that! Old Hippie said:Exactly, I have likened it to compulsive gamblers. The compulsive gambler always wants that big score, the one big hit, and he will quit gambling "...just once I want..." trouble is, once isn't enough, and no score is ever big enough. true that is! I have an easier and more common example: I don't know about BKK but when you play pool in Pattaya you have 1 extra shot when your opponent hits the white ball in the pocket! Every Farang would use the extra shot for a safety shot to get hisself in a better position. Each and Every Thai person i have ever played pool with is doing a risky shot which usually fails to get in, they know they have another shot! This is what I meant with Step by Step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 BuffHello said:dont sponsors realise that the recipient is having a high old time on the money with their thai or farang bloke whilst they are in denial? i have been dining at the Y when a gal has been talking to her sponsor on the phone telling him how much she loved him ,bla bla bla ! i nearly died laughing whilst on the job ! They do, even if they choose to deny it! Down deep they know their sponsoree is being screwed by other men but for their sanity and livelihood they choose to not dwell on it! However, if their anything like me they would never ask. Few men are anything like Pete in "private dancer" nobody is that dumb! Jep dii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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