Middle East crisis.

[Old Hippie]

Actually, Jet fuel (depending on the type, I am talking Commercial fuel here) run on something very similar to desel, or high grade kerosene...in fact, WHen I worked for Alaska Airlines, the jet fuel we sumped from the tanks was used in the desil ground equipment, and some guys put it in their (desil) cars. The cost of revamping or out right scrapping commercial aircraft engines to run on something else would kill an already dieing airline industry.

 

Figure a PW4000 engin used on a 747-400 costs around 12+Million $$ X4 engines per planeX # of planes...you get the idea...the biggest problem is getting people to conserve on it, hell, the radio travel show thae other day, was saying pleasure boat and RV sales are way up, despite the cost of fuel, and those things guzzle fuel. People just won't cooperate until forced to.

[Steve]

There were zionist movments as early as the late 1800s and there was a jewish presence in Israel back then. The Ottoman Turks ran the area till WW I (sided with the wrong side-Germany).

 

Take Syra, Iran and others antagonists out of the picture and I think the Palestinians will work with them. The rank and file are tired. They are not accepted by their neighbors and just want to do what all of us want to do is and that is eke out a living, raise families and live a good life. There is a lot of business between Israel and them. Israel needs the workers to do the menial things, the merchants do a lot of trading between each other. The jewish and arab merchants in Jerusalem do a lot of trading with each other and both make money off christian pilgrims as they have for hundreds of years.

 

Nuclear power can work. There was talk of sending it into space toward the sun if we all went 'nuclear' so to speak. The problem would be if one of those shuttles crashed upon take off or soon after.

 

Alternate energy can work. It can be a combination of various energy sources (nuclear, solar, etc.). There just isn't a sense of urgency nowadays and no global will.

 

I also firmly believe if you reduce the western presense in the middle east the people will eventually see their own governments for what it is. They pretty much do already. The middle east governments are by and large corrupt and/or incompetent. Iran was in the early stages of future civilian revolt (peaceful possibly) until the U.S. united all parties with a 'common enemy'.

 

Stay out and they will fight amongst themselves. They always have and always will. The ottoman turks spent half their time squashing tribal conflicts.

 

Trust me, the biggest fear is that we won't need their oil. A Saudi representative to OPEC once said and i'm paraphrasing, that the stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones, human advancement happened and we must fear that the world discontinues oil before our economies are ready to live without it.

[chuckwoww]

"...They are not accepted by their neighbors and just want to do what all of us want to do is and that is eke out a living, raise families and live a good life. There is a lot of business between Israel and them. Israel needs the workers to do the menial things, the merchants do a lot of trading between each other. The jewish and arab merchants in Jerusalem do a lot of trading with each other and both make money off christian pilgrims as they have for hundreds of years. "

 

Actually Steve that's how it was before 1967. Not too many Arabs left in Jerusalem now.

[Steve]

We could all say 'coulda', 'woulda' and 'shoulda' but Israeli state is a reality, is not going anywhere and on that basis has to be accepted. Nothing is impossible. Egypt or specifically Sadat saw the fruitlessness of a continued armed conflict. Turkey has not only accepted Israel totally, but has military and trade cooperation between the two.

[chuckwoww]

chocolat steve said:

We could all say 'coulda', 'woulda' and 'shoulda' but Israeli state is a reality, is not going anywhere and on that basis has to be accepted. Nothing is impossible. Egypt or specifically Sadat saw the fruitlessness of a continued armed conflict. Turkey has not only accepted Israel totally, but has military and trade cooperation between the two.

 

The devil is in the details Steve. Where are the borders? Egypt got back every inch of the Sinai. Turkey was never at war with Israel. Syria still claims the Golan Heights and the Palestinians want a viable (key word) state with right of return and capital in Jerusalem.

[Steve]

Old Hippie said:

Actually, Jet fuel (depending on the type, I am talking Commercial fuel here) run on something very similar to desel, or high grade kerosene

Thanks OH, didn't see your post. Industries die natural deaths because of technological advancements. Cars and planes killed off the rail industry. The largest stocks on the NYSE in the late 1800s were all rail stocks. Our economy was based on the rail.

We were largely an agrarian society for the first part of this country's history, the same for most countries in Europe and that is no longer true. Technological advancements made it obsolete. It creates new jobs, etc. What happened to the thousands of blacksmiths in the U.S.? A whole new industry happened to them and rendered them excess requirement.

 

I may be off here as the extent of my knowledge of science was the C grade I struggled to get in organic chem, but I fail to see why modern science can't solve the issue. We put billions into military weapons and have gone from swords, muskets and cannons to planes with stealth technology. It can be done if the will (and money) is there.

[Bkkbound04]

Bush's off the record comments Sky news

So how does Israel deal with Syria?

Still lots of hostile references to Irans responsibilty for supplying high tech equipment ?

Israeli hospital hit by a missile.

British aircraft carrier and another warship sent to help in the evacuation.

The french sent the PM and a ferry. ::

US sending Iwojima.

This has all the hallmarks of a long drawn out major escalation of the conflict.

 

JP

[Steve]

chuckwoww said:

chocolat steve said:

We could all say 'coulda', 'woulda' and 'shoulda' but Israeli state is a reality, is not going anywhere and on that basis has to be accepted. Nothing is impossible. Egypt or specifically Sadat saw the fruitlessness of a continued armed conflict. Turkey has not only accepted Israel totally, but has military and trade cooperation between the two.

 

The devil is in the details Steve. Where are the borders? Egypt got back every inch of the Sinai. Turkey was never at war with Israel. Syria still claims the Golan Heights and the Palestinians want a viable (key word) state with right of return and capital in Jerusalem.

 

Iran, Indonesia and a lot of other muslim nations were never at war with Israel as well, but Turkey took the logical and modern approach and saw the situation for what it is.

 

There is whole young generation of Palestinians that were born outside of Israel. Their home is the west bank, etc. Pretty soon, their grandparents have died off and they're fighting over a place they've never lived and sometimes never been to. Its easier to sell a dream of a country where you're at than a country that you've never been to.

 

There is a large moderate and even liberal part of Israel. Israel was guaranteed a lasting peace with Egpyt and made concessions. So far it doesn't see the same with the Palestianians. Israel has made overtures to giving back and helping create a palestinian state IF they know they can have lasting peace. The present Palestinian government needs to be able to control Hamas, Hezbullah and the Agsa brigades so that Israel will now that if it concedes land it will not be attacked.

Egypt is actually the best advertisement that it can work.

[chuckwoww]

Don't kid yourself Egypt is such a shining example. A change of government there and things could change fast.

 

The present government of the Palestinians IS Hamas. They got elected on an anti-Israel ticket. They have agreed in principle to recognize Israel but only under conditions which the Israelis won't accept.

[Steve]

The people chose Hamas so I think all should accept them as the legit government no matter how nasty they act. I think though governing will prove harder than sending suicide bombers.

Once you have to answer to the 'bread and butter' issues of every day folks, you find that you have to compromise and change to retain power.

They'll find that the people aren't going to accept Israel for the reasons why there are no jobs, and the roads aren't paved and the price of bread in the market.