Steve Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 I take absolutely no offense regarding Rogueyam. I know from where the anger comes from and I only take personal offense from those that know me persoanally. I have to confess of feeling a little guilty enjoying a bit of sadistic pleasure when he flies off the handle. There is a part of me that truly feels pity for him. I honestly believe he is not a happpy person and I feel sad for him. I know he wants to me to confirm some deep rooted prejudices and stereotypes he holds and these outbursts are a manifestation of that. The problem Rogueyam has is that he chose his politics to satisfy his fears and prejudices instead of arrivng at it as an ideology based on reason and logic. He'll continue to make implausible leaps of logic, insert red herrings, even mistate posts knowingly hoping we are fooled, because of that flaw. There are plenty of conservatives that are great persons to know that harbor no personal animus agtinst any people. There are few on this forum that I know personaly or exchange PMs with who are conservavitve but are friends of mine. Politics, like religion and sports, is a subject that gets heated. I've had deep disagreeemnts with Hugh Hoy, Suadum, (also shows one how my politics are all over the place..lol) and others but it was never personal and if we are in the same area would enjoy a drink and a laugh. I learn so much from this forum on a wide range of things. The diversity of people, thought and experiences are its greatest strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Cs: Yes I feel sometimes sad for him. But I am sure that even if by chance (or bad luck) I ever meet him IRL that although I couldn't care less about his political opinions that he would certainly not do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh_Hoy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 ... (also shows one how my politics are all over the place..lol) I hope you don't take that old saying that "politics breeds strange bedfellows" too seriously, Steve. 555555555 HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 HH, 'me old china' as the Brits say. I've had a few strange bedfellows in my day...haha Not sure if you're in LA but its raining like its Seattle or London down here. Still reasonably warm though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Tuesday, December 09, 2008 Marjorie Christofferson's Courage by Maggie Gallagher National Review Online Marjorie Christofferson is â?? or was â?? the manager of El Coyote a restaurant in LA founded by her Aunt. She gave $100 to Prop 8. Today Lisa Derrick of the Huffington Post is reporting she has resigned in the face of an ongoing onslaught of threats against the restaurant, which had nothing to do with her personal donation. Marjorie is just one of 89 people who work for El Coyote. No matter. El Coyote welcomes gay employees and customers, and did so long before that was cool. No matter. El Coyote has just sent $10,000 to gay organizations to atone for Marjorieâ??s sins. No matter. Marjorie has many gay friends whom she has helped over the years. "When one of the guys died from AIDS, Marjorie paid for his mother to fly out for his funeral," noted one restaurant patron. That doesnâ??t matter either. You can see for yourself what kind of person Marjorie Christofferson is at a meeting with GLBT leaders on YouTube here. Marjorie tried to call on the American tradition of personal caring and respect for each other in the midst of moral disagreement. El Coyote she said was a â??diverse communityâ? in which â??not everyone agrees with each otherâ??s viewpoint but we all care about and respect one another not to let those differing views come between us. We work together as a team and truly love each other as a family.â? In the end, shaking and tearful, she expressed regret for the pain she had caused, but Marjorie also said, " I cannot change a lifetime of faith in which I believe in very deeply. I cannot and will not, no matter what, change my love and respect for you and your views." Not good enough. Marjorieâ??s apparent resignation has only whetted the appetite of the anti-Prop 8 crowd. West Hollywood News is reporting, "In other boycott news, No On 8 activists are gathering lists of Yes On 8 donors to publish online in hopes of punishing those businesses for their support of the effort to strip fellow Californians of a civil right." This is a totally new tactic by the way. Boycotts against businesses who donate to a cause or mistreat their customers have long been an accepted part of the American democratic practice. But targeting an entire business because one person associated with it made (in their personal capacity) a donation to a cause is brand new. Itâ??s essentially McCarthyite in spirit. Gay-marriage activists hope to make you unemployable if you publicly disagree with them. I'm sure many ordinary gay-marriage supporters deplore what happened to Marjorie. But this is now the face of their movement: agree with us, or we will hurt you. Many other people of all faiths are going to need some of Marjorieâ??s courage if and as powerful elites â?? including government â?? move towards adopting the view that orientation is like race. Because the thing about race is: American (quite rightly) donâ??t agree to disagree about racial equality. If the gay marriage leaders have their way, there apparently wonâ??t be space in America to agree to disagree about gay marriage or about the nature, purpose and meaning of human sexual acts. (This is where the race analogy, contrary to the usually insightful Jon Meacham, just falls to the ground: Voluntary acts are rightly subject to moral reflection, inherently and always, in a way that skin color just is not.). The clash is sadly tragic and I think unnecessary. There are many other ways to understand gay rights that do not lead to the use of power to silence moral opposition. But right now, gay-marriage leaders are going with the race analogy precisely because it uniquely licenses these kinds of extraordinary public acts of hatred aimed at punishing those who disagree with them. Best of luck to you Marjorie. Thank you for your courage and your decency in the aftermath of these attacks. Very few of us in this country have had to pay any price at all for our religious beliefs, thank God (and our Founding Fathers). May your sacrifices lead us in the end to a more generous, kinder, and more typically American solution. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 She believes in god...that was her mistake. Sad for her, she sounds like a good person. Odd that she has been so caring towards gays in other regards, but doesn't agree they should be given equal rights, because of her faith. Very peculiar reasoning. Religion seems to do that to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I feel badly for Marjorie and the restaurant as well. I think its unfair. The gay 'movement' has different factions. They don't all agree with each other. There are millions of gays in America, thousands in Los Angeles. A few are even Republican. I think what we have to remember is that this boycotting group is not representative of all gays. As I said, gays are too diverse to speak with one voice and one ideology or one way of getting their rights. Every group in a struggle has at a minimum two factions. Our founding fathers were divided within the same cause. The civil rights era splintered into peaceful (MLK) v. violent (Panthers). The women's movement was splintered. The vietnam protest was splintered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Tuesday, December 09, 2008 Marjorie Christofferson's Courage by Maggie Gallagher National Review Online Marjorie Christofferson is â?? or was â?? the manager of El Coyote a restaurant in LA founded by her Aunt. She gave $100 to Prop 8. Today Lisa Derrick of the Huffington Post is reporting she has resigned in the face of an ongoing onslaught of threats against the restaurant, which had nothing to do with her personal donation. Marjorie is just one of 89 people who work for El Coyote. No matter. El Coyote welcomes gay employees and customers, and did so long before that was cool. No matter. El Coyote has just sent $10,000 to gay organizations to atone for Marjorieâ??s sins. No matter. Marjorie has many gay friends whom she has helped over the years. "When one of the guys died from AIDS, Marjorie paid for his mother to fly out for his funeral," noted one restaurant patron. That doesnâ??t matter either. You can see for yourself what kind of person Marjorie Christofferson is at a meeting with GLBT leaders on YouTube here. Marjorie tried to call on the American tradition of personal caring and respect for each other in the midst of moral disagreement. El Coyote she said was a â??diverse communityâ? in which â??not everyone agrees with each otherâ??s viewpoint but we all care about and respect one another not to let those differing views come between us. We work together as a team and truly love each other as a family.â? In the end, shaking and tearful, she expressed regret for the pain she had caused, but Marjorie also said, " I cannot change a lifetime of faith in which I believe in very deeply. I cannot and will not, no matter what, change my love and respect for you and your views." Not good enough. Marjorieâ??s apparent resignation has only whetted the appetite of the anti-Prop 8 crowd. West Hollywood News is reporting, "In other boycott news, No On 8 activists are gathering lists of Yes On 8 donors to publish online in hopes of punishing those businesses for their support of the effort to strip fellow Californians of a civil right." This is a totally new tactic by the way. Boycotts against businesses who donate to a cause or mistreat their customers have long been an accepted part of the American democratic practice. But targeting an entire business because one person associated with it made (in their personal capacity) a donation to a cause is brand new. Itâ??s essentially McCarthyite in spirit. Gay-marriage activists hope to make you unemployable if you publicly disagree with them. I'm sure many ordinary gay-marriage supporters deplore what happened to Marjorie. But this is now the face of their movement: agree with us, or we will hurt you. Many other people of all faiths are going to need some of Marjorieâ??s courage if and as powerful elites â?? including government â?? move towards adopting the view that orientation is like race. Because the thing about race is: American (quite rightly) donâ??t agree to disagree about racial equality. If the gay marriage leaders have their way, there apparently wonâ??t be space in America to agree to disagree about gay marriage or about the nature, purpose and meaning of human sexual acts. (This is where the race analogy, contrary to the usually insightful Jon Meacham, just falls to the ground: Voluntary acts are rightly subject to moral reflection, inherently and always, in a way that skin color just is not.). The clash is sadly tragic and I think unnecessary. There are many other ways to understand gay rights that do not lead to the use of power to silence moral opposition. But right now, gay-marriage leaders are going with the race analogy precisely because it uniquely licenses these kinds of extraordinary public acts of hatred aimed at punishing those who disagree with them. Best of luck to you Marjorie. Thank you for your courage and your decency in the aftermath of these attacks. Very few of us in this country have had to pay any price at all for our religious beliefs, thank God (and our Founding Fathers). May your sacrifices lead us in the end to a more generous, kinder, and more typically American solution. Link rogie, do you know this is really none news? Why I say it is non-news is who was the moron that let it out she had donated $100.00 and then made an issue of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Why I say it is non-news is who was the moron that let it out she had donated $100.00 and then made an issue of it? Political donations are made public as a matter of law in California. The gay activists went through the list of donors and then targeted those individuals who they could locate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Too bad for Marjorie, but she had to accept responsibility for her actions. Engage brain before doing something you'll regret later and all that. There is *nothing* different from this and the race rights battles of the 60s -- RY is being typically dishonest if he says otherwise. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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