Bangkoktraveler Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Why does one draw a pistol on an already subdued prisoner? I was taught by the military - just as the police are also taught - that you never point your weapon at anyone unless you intend to use it. The video clearly shows the policeman pointing his weapon at the "offender". So what was the "tragic mistake"? Determining that the weapon was pointed at the offender is a bit of a foregone conclusion. The bullet did find its way into the kid's body after all. But no' date=' I do not know whether there was a mistake nor, if so, what it was. Neither do I know that there wasn't one. Further, I do not know that the kid was "subdued". It seems to me that folks here are getting way ahead of the known facts. That's all I'm saying. [/quote'] rogie, only a green horn, that is with guns, would say what you have said. Anybody that has an ounce of knowledge with guns can see the cop did a lot of things that makes you wonder where his head was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidflux Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Every police department has different policies on officers drawing their weapon. I seriously doubt there is any breakage of the law for simply removing a gun from its holster. As far as I know, the policy of most bay area law enforcement agencies states that an officer is authorized to use his weapon any time he feels there is a threat of bodily harm to himself or to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 From all indications so far the BART cop is in the wrong, accident or not. I'm guessing BART knows this since they've been conspicuously quiet on the whole issue. Everyone loves to bag on the police, but I doubt many people would want to step into their shoes for a day. The stresses they put up with are no excuse for what happened, but you can't lump them all into the 'pig' category. The 'protest' and riot that ensued was bullshit. In typical Oakland style more damage was done to the cause than good. There's close to 200 murders a year in Oakland, most of it black on black gang violence, yet there's never any public outcry over those, no protests to get rid of the gangs, no pleas for calm by the mayor. The whole thing was political grandstanding. The protests are bullshit. The riots are criminal bullshit. The posturing by A.G. Brown is bullshit. Etc. The BART cop has resigned. He's not going anywhere and there were many witnesses and much evidence as to what happened. It has only been ten days. Nobody is going anywhere. Let the District Attorney and the BART and Oakland P.D.s do their jobs. They will come out with some sort of statement and theory as to what happened and then proceed to the next step, whatever it is. What is the hurry? Why are so many concluding that the institutions are failing to deal with this situation correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USVirgin Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Cuz that's the way we roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 There's only 3 possible scenarios. The cop's a psycho. The cop was so scared he forgot his training. His training was so inadequate he fired accidentally. Whatever, his life is fucked now. I doubt he's a psycho because he'd have found a less public situation to kill in. The riot was an excuse for everyone in the 'hood to run down and grab a new TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USVirgin Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I should clarify that statement. I was quoting a fireman after I made a 911 call recently. I asked him how they and the paramedics could possibly show up within a minute of the 911 call, and that was his response, "That's the way we roll, baby." I have nothing against public servants, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm pro law enforcement, obviously it's a necessity, but your rant about chicken shit cops reminded me of my youth. We'd hang out at the park at night in a very affluent neighborhood, not causing trouble, just drinking beer and smoking pot, mostly. The LAPD came around to hassle us on a regular basis, just part of their rounds. My pal, "One Ball McCall", always wore a buck knife on his belt. He got his nick by saying, "My name's Buck, Buck McCall, ask me again you'll be missing one ball." He would introduce himself to the cops as such, while we all stood around snickering. But if he spotted an inexperienced cop, he'd always ask for a badge number and drop names of higher ups while being hassled. He intimidated the fuck out of those guys. Almost seemed like he ran them off, even though we weren't tough or doing anything wrong. True, we NEED cops. We need them to enforce the laws, keep the peace etc...we DON'T need them doing 90% of the bullshit they actually do instead of actually fighting real violent crimes. Why does one draw a pistol on an already subdued prisoner? I was taught by the military - just as the police are also taught - that you never point your weapon at anyone unless you intend to use it. The video shows the policeman draw his pistol and point it at the "offender". So what was the "tragic mistake"? He didn't mean to pull the trigger? (A possibility ... ) p.s. My grandfather was a policeman, as was my grandmother's father. I am not at all anti-cop, unlike some people posting in this thread. I'm against the cops, because by and large, they get away with a lot of shit, simply because society and the system as a whole allow it. Ever go to traffic court? the cops word is gospel! He has "integrity" the court relies on..." you don't. Thus, these cops have blind power they can, and often do abuse. If this incident were not caught on tape, and so widely witnessed, this cop would have gotten away with it. How many others have that we don't know about? I have met a lot of cops, and know many quite well. Some are decent guys, most are assholes with issues from the start, and they should NEVER have been given the job. Take away the badge and uniform that give them power, and their weapons, and they are often very cowardly people who cannot fend for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Are you sure that you truly believe this? Does the U.S. really have no greater ideals than Thailand? How about Saudi Arabia? Iran? Zimbabwe? China? North Korea? Really? Geeez, the devil must need a winter jacket because hell just froze over. I'm agreeing with RY! And LP, I do not think it Western arrogance to state that we have higher ideals than other countries, such as those RY named. Now if you ask if we live up to those ideals, that's a different story. But comments like what you made give those transgressions a free pass and cheapen it for everyone. Don't accept mediocrity, LP. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Why does one draw a pistol on an already subdued prisoner? I was taught by the military - just as the police are also taught - that you never point your weapon at anyone unless you intend to use it. The video shows the policeman draw his pistol and point it at the "offender". So what was the "tragic mistake"? He didn't mean to pull the trigger? (A possibility ... ) p.s. My grandfather was a policeman, as was my grandmother's father. I am not at all anti-cop, unlike some people posting in this thread. I'm not anti-cop, I am anti-bad cop, anti-vigilante cop. We seem to have a rash of this shit over the past few years. Is it training? Is it poor choices in hiring? I dunno. But it has to stop. And I agree Frash, from discussions with all cops I know: a) they never draw their weapon unless the intend to use it, and if they use it, it is a shot the the body mass (i.e., the chest). And dreams of shooting the guy in the leg are just Hollywood drivel. This particular cop needs to be tried, because the evidence suggests an execution-style murder. It doesn't matter how "bad" the guy on the ground was. As Flash said, he was cuffed and subdued. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogueyam Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 It doesn't matter how "bad" the guy on the ground was. As Flash said, he was cuffed and subdued. As I said before, I think some folks here are getting ahead of the facts. I don't claim to know what happened myself, I'm just pointing out that there is a lot of uncertainty and an investigation is ongoing. BART spokesman Jim Allison has said the officer's gun went off while police were trying to restrain Grant and that Grant was not cuffed. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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