Author of Arizona immigration law wants to end birthright citizenship

[ghostdog]

The wall is a joke' date=' they'd tunnel under it, or break it down. [color:red']I do agree, the way to stop this is to punish those who hire them.[/color] But local cops can also enforce no loitering laws to stop them from just standing on corners looking for work etc...and you're right, I'd have to pay a lot for a broad like Selma! And I would if I could!

 

BT,

 

Pay to imprison them? not really, just send them back...or make them work on prison road crews etc...get something for the expense...but sending them back is a must. 2nd, keep them out, but drastic means if necessary. 3rd, [color:red]yes punish those

who hire them.[/color] The drug problem...what drugs are they bringing in and how? cut off the "trade routes" and you stop the flow, or greatly curtail it. Plenty still comes in by air and water. Plenty of drugs are made in the USA...meth and weed etc...your do nothing and let it continue approach solves nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

Why should an employer have to verify that the documents a person produces so as to work are legitimate? That is the job of Homeland Security.

 

Why can't the Border Patrol patrol the border?

 

The answer: If the Border Patrol continues to fuck up, the people will beg the government to put troops on the border and possibly federalize all the local cops under Homeland Security. Igf that should happen, we are really fucked!

 

 

That depends, if laws are passed for the employer to verify immigration status and not hire people without the proper status, then it is the employer's responsibility.

 

Seem to me this statement about the Border Patrol is just from the butt. I have been getting numbers quoted in USA, for the decade after 2000, and it seems each year between 700K and 1.6 million people are caught and arrested trying to cross the southern boarder.

 

This with a illegal immigrant population of around 12 million is the current estimate, they don't all come the same year. What is an acceptable and realistic batting average? Sorry, we do not live on a planet where batting 1000 is realistic.

[Old Hippie]

Hell fucking yes it is an employer's responsibility to verify your documents! I had to prove I was legally allowed to work in the USA, AND also had to prove I had a license to do the work I do, which the company had to verify. You think they should just trust everyone? Hell dude, people steal Identities all the time for all sorts of purposes. If your employer didn't have to verify it, you could give them any old paper...

[shygye]

... you mean like the pilot that flew for 13 years with no valid license?

[Bangkoktraveler]

Hell fucking yes it is an employer's responsibility to verify your documents! I had to prove I was legally allowed to work in the USA, AND also had to prove I had a license to do the work I do, which the company had to verify. You think they should just trust everyone? Hell dude, people steal Identities all the time for all sorts of purposes. If your employer didn't have to verify it, you could give them any old paper...

 

 

The problem is if the documents are stolen or forged, it is up to the employer to tell the difference or suffer the terrible consequences.

 

Too many jobs that were done by the government are now forced on the employer. The Sherriff used to collect taxes here in Arizona. Today, the employer in most cases, collects the tax and doesn't get even a thank you whereas the Sherriff use to get a percentage of the tax collected.

 

Why have a Border Patrol? They don't do there job and a lot of what they are suppose to be doing, they want the employer to do free.

[Old Hippie]

... you mean like the pilot that flew for 13 years with no valid license?

 

 

Among others, yes.

[Old Hippie]

"...The problem is if the documents are stolen or forged, it is up to the employer to tell the difference or suffer the terrible consequences..."

 

Many employers are already doing this to cover their own ass. In my case, the government assists with the background check and license check. The FAA occasionally makes spot checks for licenses. SHould it be illegal for them to ask me to prove I have a license and ID?

[Bangkoktraveler]

"...The problem is if the documents are stolen or forged, it is up to the employer to tell the difference or suffer the terrible consequences..."

 

Many employers are already doing this to cover their own ass. In my case, the government assists with the background check and license check. The FAA occasionally makes spot checks for licenses. SHould it be illegal for them to ask me to prove I have a license and ID?

 

 

For most places, a Social Security number was all that was required to get a job, not any more.

 

It is like a bar that 'allowed' a patron to enter a person that was underaged because the bar did not realize the ID was forged. Should the bar be closed down or the patron with the phony ID be whisked away?

 

 

 

[ghostdog]

It is like a bar that 'allowed' a patron to enter a person that was underaged because the bar did not realize the ID was forged. Should the bar be closed down or the patron with the phony ID be whisked away?

 

 

That happens all the time. The bar doesn't get closed permanently, but they may have to close for 30 days.

 

In the debates on immigration reform, this is often a topic, that is having a more rigorous national ID that is biometric and less easily forged.

 

If you don't mind a national ID card like this, it is not a problem and can help employers identify valid credentials more accurately.

 

On the other, you will find civil libertarians on left and right that vehemently oppose this kind of government intrusion. In the past, when proposed in Congress, it has always flown like a lead balloon.

 

This may be a good example of the cure being worse than the disease. It is a trade off. What level of intrusion do you tolerate in the name of security? How big a crisis is it that you need to do something like this?

 

But blaming everything on the border guards (we have seen they catch a lot of people) and the illegal immigrants themselves (who pays them that keeps them here?) is passing the buck. If you eat a tomato that was picked by an illegal immigrant, you are complicit. It is all part of the social contract, whether written or unwritten. Imagine if the price you paid for a tomato had to go for paying for the picker's health care, 401K, and their kid's college education?

[USVirgin]

Well, living in California, I'm happy to report I'm not affected by illegal immigration at all.

 

Been getting phone calls from the ex-nanny (legal) today because her nephew (illegal) just got his third DUI and she's asking me if he should go to court on Thursday, hire an attorney, or go back to Guatamala.

 

I said it depends upon the circumstances and what the BAC was. She can't read the ticket, so she's on her way over with whatever documentation he has and I expect a knock on the door at any moment.

 

Shame, he's a nice, intelligent, hard working kid, who happens to fit the stereotype of the drunk Injun with one glass of firewater in him - an instant silly drunk.

 

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to tell him it will be in everyone's best interest (especially, financially) if he flees the country.

 

Update to follow shortly.

[Bangkoktraveler]

It is like a bar that 'allowed' a patron to enter a person that was underaged because the bar did not realize the ID was forged. Should the bar be closed down or the patron with the phony ID be whisked away?

 

 

That happens all the time. The bar doesn't get closed permanently' date=' but they may have to close for 30 days.

 

In the debates on immigration reform, this is often a topic, that is having a more rigorous national ID that is biometric and less easily forged.

 

If you don't mind a national ID card like this, it is not a problem and can help employers identify valid credentials more accurately.

 

On the other, you will find civil libertarians on left and right that vehemently oppose this kind of government intrusion. In the past, when proposed in Congress, it has always flown like a lead balloon.

 

This may be a good example of the cure being worse than the disease. It is a trade off. What level of intrusion do you tolerate in the name of security? How big a crisis is it that you need to do something like this?

 

But blaming everything on the border guards (we have seen they catch a lot of people) and the illegal immigrants themselves (who pays them that keeps them here?) is passing the buck. If you eat a tomato that was picked by an illegal immigrant, you are complicit. It is all part of the social contract, whether written or unwritten. Imagine if the price you paid for a tomato had to go for paying for the picker's health care, 401K, and their kid's college education?[/quote']

 

 

 

Have you gone to a doctor's office lately? There is another business in front of the doctor's office. It didn't use to be this way, but it is now.

 

The government is forcing businesses to have other businesses in front of their business so they can make sure their business is tax, employee compliant. Why should a business collect taxes for the government and not get paid to do it?

 

As for the Border Patrol, when the rancher got killed along the border, several Border Patrol vehicles were in Tucson at a park checking IDs of homeless people. If they were at the border, the rancher may not have gotten killed.

 

Still on the Border Patrol: What foreign country borders Colorado?

Then why is the Border Patrol in Colorado? Why not at the border?