Israel, aligned with US for Iran war

[Faustian]

Depends on how you understand the word 'conflict'....attempting another reality distortion event are we RY?

 

Do you have any awareness of the word integrity?

 

RY, you're wrong on this, please try to maintain a modicum of decency.....

[Old Hippie]

All the experts were saying this current war would be wrapped up in a few weeks...

 

Nonsense. Nobody said that. E.g. see the review of the Feith book' date=' above.

[/quote']

 

As Suadam pointed out, plenty of people made this claim, some of them high up. Hell, it was the montra of damned near every Conservative talk/"News" show in the country.

 

I see no logic as to why we would be holding back in Iraq, makes no sense at all. Care to elaborate on why you think it does?

 

Ask a somewhat intelligent question and you might get an answer. Ask a bullshit question and get no answer.

 

 

 

Way to cop out/avoid answering a simple question.

 

[Steve]

I read long ago that Israel had something referred to as the "Masada Principle" that is, if they were going to be over run, they'd nuke themselves and all along with them. Of course that was long ago, and who knows now? Some have dismissed it just a stupid thought, but you have to wonder, given all the fanatics in the world, on all sides.

 

From what I understand they have communicated that if they are nuked, the holy sites are going as well. If Iran gets the bomb, I don't think they'll use it on Israel as crazy as that may sound. I think it would similar to the MAD (mutual assured destruction) principle that kept us and the USSR from destroying each other. Iran knows that Israel has the bomb and would have no second thoughts of taking Tehran as well as Mecca and Medina with it. They'd nuke everyone.

 

Clancy who probably has the most access to high level defense personnel (and a known hawk) than just about any civilian based a lot of his books on actual things. He mentioned drones before they were put in use, as well as the theory of flying planes into American high profile buildings, and in 'The Sum Of All Fears' he mentions that Israel were very close to being overrun and were close to deciding to use their nukes.

 

The moslems in the middle east may hate Israel but I don't think its at the expense of their holy sites and capital cities.

[..]

So what's your point? All of the above came to pass, right?

Ya, six months passed. And so did 10x six months. And we are still in a war...

 

Or is this that famous Republican "new math?"

 

Regards,

SD

[Old Hippie]

All the best evidence/advice told this ass clown not to go into Iraq, his daddy knew it, Powell knew it...etc, but no, Jr. was going to show them all...and he did, he showed us just how wrong he was.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Suadum said [color:red]"famous Republican "new math""[/color]

 

 

You should see the Republican's instructor manual on the "Republicans New Math".

 

Bush has been studying this book for a long time.

 

He should be done with the book in a year or two.

 

Here is a picture of him being interrupted on 9/11/01. Most of us know the book as "My Pet Goat".

 

 

 

[robaus]

In reply to rogueyam,

 

The first clue that your plan is unrealistic at best is that is presumes that the one thing missing is "pressure on Israel".

... well, I'd say threatening to withold or at least attach a few strings to the annual billions of US taxpayers $$ in economic and miltary aid to Israel to force a serious peace conference would be a good start.

 

Bugger me, how much more pressure do you want to exert on the Palestinians. The people of Gaza are living in one big open prison, with food, fuel, and essentials cut off by Israel. In the West Bank they have to endure the daily humiliation of more than 500 Israeli checkpoints to move about. The democratically elected Palestinian government refused aid by USA and EU. And according to Condy not even the rich Arab states are helping. Posiive pressure also came in the form of complete recognition of Israel by all Arab countries at the 2002 Arab League summit

 

This sort of rhetoric is often bandied about but I think it can be readily seen to be inapt.

...a fallacy... readily seen by whom ... only by YOU apparently. Talk about rhetoric. I think you have made your shallow ramblings and waffling (but never actually addressing the question) into an art form.

 

You posit a symmetry between Israelis who desire the "total ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Judea and Samaria" and Palestinians who want the total destruction of Israel.

.. I'm trying to find a way to end this cycle of violence and inevitable revenge, not nitpick by "claiming" that Palestinians have more bad guys than Israel. The grief felt by relatives of Baruch Goldstein's victims. Baruch Goldstein The fanatical Brooklyn born Israeli murdered 29 Palestinians peacefully at prayer and wounded another 150 is just as real as the families of those Israelis who were simply enjoying a sabbath meal when murdered by a suicide bomber at Maxim's restaurant in Haifa.Yom Kippur massacre

 

In Israel the central government has declared a willingness to compromise

... is that why they have continued to build settlements on occupied land for the last 41 years, annexed the Golan Heights, and refused the return of Palestinian refugees for 60 years, all in contravention of UN resolutions and the Geneva Convention, and answered recent Hamas ceasefire offers with more assassinations and the usual collateral damage?

 

and maintains a near-monopoly on the use of force by Israelis.

... does that include the way the Israeli army treats Palestinians under occupation. Our reign of terror, by the Israeli army

 

Better you perform a spot "more analysis for yourself to make up for your lack of information which is preventing you from understanding reality."

 

I offered a compromise solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict which might win some accolades for USA and EU from neighbouring Arab countries and defuse the volatile situation and arms race outlined in the OP

 

You never said precisely what parts of my suggested solution were actually "unfair". Please do tell.

 

Every conflict in history has a resolution. This one has been going on for nearly 100 years now. It's time it ended.

 

And rather than a "you simply don't understand" side step and smokescreen, please tell us what exactly is YOUR "just" solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. You do actually want a peaceful solution .... don't you?

[CTO]

I'm surprised with the headline - I really thought Israel would side with Iran

[rogueyam]

The democratically elected Palestinian government refused aid by USA and EU.

 

This is simply false. The PA gets millions in aid from the U.S.

 

The rest is a tissue of falsehoods and irrationality as well, but I won't bother to unravel it all.

 

I went and saw Dennis Prager speak at Cal (U.C. Berkeley) tonight on the subject of "Why Universities Should Celebrate Israel's 60th Birthday". He was brilliant, funny, and quite wise. He said he wanted to title his talk "Why Universities Don't Celebrate Israel's 60th Birthday" but decided to be more positive in the billing. But in fact, he listed the reasons why Universities should and then the reasons why they don't. There were a lot of insights, and Mr. Prager spoke very eloquently, but his bottom line is that the world is unfair, unjust and morally twisted.

 

I can't disagree.

 

[rogueyam]

And rather than a "you simply don't understand" side step and smokescreen, please tell us what exactly is YOUR "just" solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. You do actually want a peaceful solution .... don't you?

 

I have long held the view that the Arabs and Muslims and leftists will hate and attack Israel forever no matter what, and that Israel should resolve the situation unilaterally as follows:

 

The Israelis should convene a conference among themselves involving representatives from all facets of their society; all political parties, the military, the judiciary, elected officials, business leaders, academics, unions, religious leaders, etc. They should get out a map and draw a line around what is Israel and what is the new State of "Palestine". They should draw this line wherever they agree among themselves, looking forward to the indefinite, long-term future. That is, they should come up with a boundary that the Israelis among themselves agree to be satisfied with essentially forever, they will relinquish no more and they will seek to encompass no more. They should then withraw military protection from areas outside Israel and fortify their border. Any Israelis or Jews who choose to live outside of Israel must make their own accomodations with their neighbors in "Palestine" (or wherever).

 

The Israelis should then tell the world "Screw you all. We have listened to your crap for 60 years and more than anything we're bored. This is Israel, that is Palestine. If the Palestinians want to be reasonable we will trade and be neighborly. If they attack us we will do what any other nation on Earth would do and that is beat the holy living yogurts out of them without hesitation, remorse, or apology. Anyone who does not like this new arrangement is free to go fuck themselves."

 

And then they should just get back to partying and squabbling among themselves the way God intended.